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OOR Development Session (n.09): "Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories" - Tue 2013_10_08     (1)

Session Topic: Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories: Developing a consensus for categorization of ontologies in an (Open) Ontology Repository instance     (1A)

Session Co-chairs: Professor Dr. TillMossakowski (U of Magdeburg) & Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto)     (1B)

Briefings:     (1C)

  • Dr. AleksandraSojic (U of Bremen) - "Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories" - opening brief ... slides     (1D)
  • Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) - "Ontology Categories in COLORE" ... slides     (1E)

In this open session ... we hope stewards of current and developing ontology repositories (folks from BioPortal, SOCoP-OOR, COLORE, Ontohub, and various OOR nodes ... and other domain ontology repositories, like, for Standards, Financial Industry Ontologies, SpacePortal, etc.) will join us in this session, share their thoughts and help develop a consensus.     (1F)

  • Dial-in:     (1G4)
    • Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... (long distance cost may apply)     (1G4A)
    • Skype: joinconference (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... ref.)     (1G4B)
      • when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1G4B1)
      • Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...     (1G4B2)
        • Add the contact "joinconference" to your skype contact list first. To participate in the teleconference, make a skype call to "joinconference", then open the dial pad (see platform-specific instructions below) and enter the Conference ID: 141184# when prompted.     (1G4B2A)
      • Can't find Skype Dial pad? ...     (1G4B3)
        • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1G4B3A)
        • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... (ref.)     (1G4B3B)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1G5)
    • Nominally, when a presentation is in progress, the moderator will mute everyone, except for the speaker.     (1G5A)
    • To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6" (please mute your phone, especially if you are in a noisy surrounding, or if you are introducing noise, echoes, etc. into the conference line.)     (1G5B)
    • we will usually save all questions and discussions till after all presentations are through. You are encouraged to jot down questions onto the chat-area in the mean time (that way, they get documented; and you might even get some answers in the interim, through the chat.)     (1G5C)
    • During the Q&A / discussion segment (when everyone is muted), If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please raise your hand (virtually) by clicking on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the session moderator (again, press "*7" on your phone to un-mute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*6" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1G5D)
    • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").     (1G6A)
    • You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1G6B)
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) oor_20131008@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1G6C)
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/     (1G7)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1G7A)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1G7B)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1G7C)
  • RSVP to peter.yim@cim3.com appreciated, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)     (1G9)
  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1G11)

Attendees     (1H)

Agenda Ideas     (1H4)

In-session Resources     (1H5)

Agenda & Proceedings     (1I)

1. Meeting called to order:     (1I5)

2. Roll Call:     (1I10)

3. Key discussion:     (1I13)

3.1 Briefing-1 - "Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories (overview)" - Aleksandra Sojic     (1I14)

3.2 Briefing-2 - "Ontology Categories in COLORE" - Michael Grüninger     (1I15)

3.3 Open discussion: developing a consensus on the meta-ontology for categorization of ontologies in an (Open) Ontology Repository instance     (1I16)

4. IM Chat Transcript captured during the session     (1J)

see raw transcript here.     (1J1)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1J2)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1J3)

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --     (1J4)


Chat transcript from room: oor_20131008     (1J5)

2013-10-08 GMT-08:00     (1J6)


[6:57] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the     (1J7)

OOR Development Session: "Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories" - Tue 2013_10_08     (1J8)

Session Topic: Meta-Ontology for Ontology Categories: Developing a consensus for categorization of ontologies     (1J9)

in an (Open) Ontology Repository instance     (1J10)

Session Co-chairs: Professor Dr. Till Mossakowski (U of Magdeburg) & Professor Michael Grüninger (U of Toronto)     (1J11)

Briefings:     (1J12)

Proceedings     (1J19)

[6:59] anonymous morphed into Aleksandra Sojic     (1J20)

[7:04] anonymous morphed into Julien Corman     (1J21)

[7:05] DanielCoutoVale: I cannot join the conference. Something wrong is happening to     (1J22)

the "joinconference" account.     (1J23)

[7:06] anonymous morphed into Torsten Hahmann     (1J24)

[7:06] Christoph Lange: The account might appear offline in Skype. I was able to dial in nevertheless.     (1J25)

[7:07] Peter P. Yim: @Aleksandra, Till and anyone else having trouble connecting - Please use skype-out     (1J26)

and dial the telephone number instead (of the "joinconference" user) of you can     (1J27)

[7:07] DanielCoutoVale: For me, it appears offline and the only option is to "Call Phone". There is     (1J28)

no "Call" as usual.     (1J29)

[7:09] Torsten Hahmann: Hi - I got to call in with skype by using "call" in the menu instead of the button.     (1J30)

[7:10] Maria Keet: I keep on being disconnected (but that's also for the chatroom, so its not due to skype)     (1J31)

[7:11] anonymous morphed into Pat Cassidy     (1J32)

[7:16] Christoph Lange: [in response to PeterYim's query on whether the work Christoph Lange is committing     (1J33)

to the OOR-Ontohub-API github repository would be good material for the next OOR-Hackathon session]     (1J34)

Summary: I don't currently have time to follow all OOR activities full-time. But my connection to     (1J35)

Till is reliable. Whenever something needs to be done where I can help (such as the stuff I prepared     (1J36)

for today), he will let me know.     (1J37)

[7:20] Christoph Lange: Till will be with us in a few minutes.     (1J39)

[7:20] Maria Keet: sorry, but the network isn't handling the voice well. I'd like to participate a     (1J40)

next time, and in the meantime can provide input via email w.r.t. ROMULUS and our experiences with     (1J41)

the metadata.     (1J42)

[7:21] Peter P. Yim: sorry about this, Maria ...     (1J43)

[7:22] anonymous morphed into Francesca Quattri     (1J44)

[7:21] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Grüninger starts the session ...     (1J45)

[7:24] DanielCoutoVale: Please, where is the link?     (1J46)

[7:25] Christoph Lange: Slides are at     (1J47)

[7:26] Peter P. Yim: == Aleksandra Sojic presenting the opening brief ...     (1J52)

[7:29] Peter P. Yim: @Aleksandra - slide#3: what do you mean by "OOR Independent" & "OOR Aligned"     (1J53)

[7:33] Till Mossakowski: I think "OOR independent" means "sub-ontologies developed by specific     (1J54)

communtites", while "OOR Aligned" means "sub-ontologies (typically the upper part) developed     (1J55)

centrally by OOR"     (1J56)

[7:33] Henson Graves: do you include standard metadata attributes such as where it came from, who did     (1J57)

it, when was it done, etc.     (1J58)

[7:36] Peter P. Yim: @Aleksandra et al. - are most ontology repository categorization implementations     (1J59)

hierarchical now, or do some of them support the assignment of multiple categories to an ontology     (1J60)

(multiple inheritance allowed in the sturcture)?     (1J61)

[7:40] Michael Grüninger: Actually, COLORE is restricted to Common Logic ontologies -- I think that     (1J62)

OntoHub is the only effort that supports multiple ontology languages     (1J63)

[7:40] Todd Schneider: Are we clear on the intent of providing a categorization for OOR (or other     (1J64)

ontology repositories)?     (1J65)

[7:40] Todd Schneider: Is there a focus on 'findability' or 'search'?     (1J66)

[7:42] Todd Schneider: Following up on Peter's comment, would it be better to provide a lattice view?     (1J67)

[7:45] Till Mossakowski: Aleksandra's domain fields ontology involves multiple inheritance at a few places     (1J68)

[7:46] Todd Schneider: Till, how is multiple inheritance presented (i.e., visualized) to a user?     (1J69)

[7:48] Till Mossakowski: basically as in Prot��g��: classes appear multiple times in the hierarchy     (1J70)

[7:47] anonymous1 morphed into Robert Rovetto     (1J71)

[7:49] Torsten Hahmann: With COLORE we are moving in the direction of multiple classifications     (1J72)

("views") in addition to the main hierarchies (which are based on the set of primitive concepts &     (1J73)

relations). E.g. based on whether they can be reduced to others (core vs. non-core) or whether they     (1J74)

are generic or domain ontologies, and what larger ontologies they are part of (e.g. PSL or DOLCE). I     (1J75)

don't think displaying it as a lattice makes much sense.     (1J76)

[7:49] Todd Schneider: Till, understood (about Protege), but what would be presented on a UI (for the     (1J77)

repository)?     (1J78)

[7:56] Till Mossakowski: Todd, in the UI we present it in a similar way as Prot��g�� does.     (1J79)

[7:49] Todd Schneider: What is the problem that needs to be solved?     (1J80)

[7:56] Christoph Lange: Seems that not everyone can hear me     (1J81)

[7:56] Christoph Lange: Should I type into the chat?     (1J82)

[7:56] Christoph Lange: The main thing about LoLa is that it is independent from concrete ontology     (1J85)

languages. E.g. OMV and the BioPortal-Protege ontologies have a lot of OWL-specific things     (1J86)

hard-coded (classes, subproperty axioms, etc.)     (1J87)

[7:57] Christoph Lange: LoLa as an ontology abstracts from that, but as an _instance_ of the LoLa     (1J88)

ontology we also maintain a _registry_ of concrete ontology languages.     (1J89)

[7:57] Christoph Lange: The Lo/La (Logic/Language) level of LoLa can be seen here:     (1J90)

[7:58] Christoph Lange: The inner-ontology level can be seen here:     (1J92)

What we show here is not exactly an excerpt from the LoLa ontology, but from the Ontohub     (1J94)

database schema, which is modelled after LoLa. (One minor thing is obsolete: we now call "entity" "symbol".)     (1J95)

[8:00] Christoph Lange: Yesterday I reviewed the OMV, BioPortal, Protege, etc. ontologies, which     (1J96)

Aleksandra has imported into the current draft of the "Ontohub Metadata Ontology", and came up with     (1J97)

some concrete ideas for aliging LoLa to the former ones:     (1J98)

https://github.com/ontohub/OOR_Ontohub_API/issues (most of the issues so far deal with this; maybe I     (1J99)

should assign further tags to them to keep alignment tasks separate from other tasks).     (1J100)

[8:01] Christoph Lange: The question from an Ontohub perspective is: We could do without OMV etc.; we     (1J101)

could simply "steal" the best ideas from OMV and incorporate them into LoLa. However if we agree     (1J102)

that OMV etc. will be of interest to other OOR repositories (maybe particularly the OWL-specific     (1J103)

ones), we should rather aim at backwards compatibility and thus at an alignment.     (1J104)

[8:02] Christoph Lange: For Ontohub's core purpose (managing ontologies across languages/logics),     (1J105)

LoLa is more precise in any case. But LoLa is currently missing     (1J106)

metadata/repository/maintenance-related vocabulary, which does exist in OMV etc.     (1J107)

[8:02] Christoph Lange: That's it for now about LoLa :-)     (1J108)

[8:03] Christoph Lange: Oh, the full background about LoLa is available here:     (1J109)

[7:58] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Grüninger presenting "Ontology Categories in COLORE" ...     (1J111)

[8:02] Michael Grüninger: [the other view on how ontologies are categorized in COLORE]     (1J112)

[8:05] Pat Cassidy: Michael: re slide 2 -- in addition to those two characteristics, it could be important     (1J114)

to specify *how* an ontology is used, i.e. is it used in some application(s), and if so, which?     (1J115)

[8:06] Peter P. Yim: == open discussion ...     (1J116)

[8:08] Christoph Lange: If there are any questions about SKOS, I'll be happy to answer them. For now     (1J117)

we have a GitHub issue about this:     (1J118)

1. SKOS is semantically more appropriate for domain categories. 2. a lot of category schemes (e.g.     (1J120)

librarians') exist in SKOS already, accessible on the Web, and can be linked to.     (1J121)

[8:10] DanielCoutoVale: I would like to comment on search and findability     (1J122)

[8:12] Till Mossakowski: Peter, you can assign multiple categories in Ontohub     (1J123)

[8:16] Till Mossakowski: where can I find more about the difference between search and findability?     (1J124)

[8:18] Peter P. Yim: @Todd - how about "discoverability" ... that too, I think (or is that synonimous     (1J125)

with one of those two - "search" and "findability"     (1J126)

[8:22] Todd Schneider: The enterprise search crowd views discoverability as an aspect of search, a by-product.     (1J127)

[8:21] Peter P. Yim: looks like the topic today has two prongs - should we be dealing with the two     (1J128)

issues - "metadata" and "UI" - separately     (1J129)

[8:29] Michael Grüninger: @Peter -- the two issues are merged if we are developing a UI that is     (1J130)

driven by metadata     (1J131)

[8:29] Peter P. Yim: sounds great, Michael!     (1J132)

[8:21] DanielCoutoVale: I would like to place the question again about the function of the     (1J133)

categorisation.     (1J134)

[8:22] Christoph Lange: In my review (see GitHub issues) I found nothing really in OMV that     (1J135)

I _disagree_ with. Just lots of aspects where OMV is insufficient.     (1J136)

[8:23] Christoph Lange: @TillMossakowski: good point about OMV restricting dual licenses. My view was     (1J137)

that on a higher level I found nothing to disagree with; but certainly there might be finer details     (1J138)

that we don't accept.     (1J139)

[8:23] Francesca Quattri: the topic is highly interesting. Maybe the best way to find out the     (1J140)

difficulties that users may find in searching ontologies might be solved by asking the users     (1J141)

themselves. I know that some unis here run surveys online to work on more user-friendly search     (1J142)

systems. questionnaires are also run via crowdsourcing.     (1J143)

[8:23] Francesca Quattri: our community is quite large, maybe we can run a survey of the major     (1J144)

encountered difficulties     (1J145)

[8:26] Ray Martin: For many topics there are multiple dimensions or viewpoints. Take the topic of     (1J146)

life safety - one could develop an ontology of the fundamentals, a scientific perspective. Others     (1J147)

may need an engineering perspective. and yet others would utilize a business ontology. i know there are     (1J148)

times when i would like to know this type of categorization prior to delving deeply into a given ontology.     (1J149)

[8:30] Francesca Quattri: @Ray. exactly. Alexandra made a good point with Arabic. Let's say one is     (1J150)

not interested in all the categories presented in the slides, but let's say in specific ones (even     (1J151)

in relation with other languages). the width and depth of the ontology might change considerably.     (1J152)

[8:32] Todd Schneider: How could 'tags' be coupled to a 'better' classification?     (1J153)

[8:33] DanielCoutoVale: about keyword tagging     (1J154)

[8:33] Todd Schneider: How to go. Thank you.     (1J155)

[8:33] Christoph Lange: SKOS provides means for connecting keywords to a topic hierarchy     (1J156)

[8:33] Michael Grüninger: @Torsten -- is this a meta-ontology or a folksonomy for ontology description     (1J157)

[8:34] Torsten Hahmann: more of a folksonomy - let it grow through how people annotate ontologies     (1J158)

(notice, e.g., skos:hiddenLabel - something that's never displayed, but accepted as a query string)     (1J160)

[8:35] Francesca Quattri: @Torsten: it might be also interesting to let it grow through what users     (1J161)

are looking after/search     (1J162)

[8:36] Francesca Quattri: @Daniel: basically what Daniel is saying. Using frequency     (1J163)

[8:37] Torsten Hahmann: @Francesca: I totally agree - not just the ontology owner/devleoper should be     (1J164)

able to tag, but also all users; they provide probably better tags (how they found it)     (1J165)

[8:38] Francesca Quattri: @Tosten: agreed. Also thinking that developers might estimate a     (1J166)

tag/category, users relate the choice -even semantic one for the tag- to their need.     (1J167)

[8:38] Christoph Lange: Let me type. I think SKOS answers many of our questions.     (1J168)

[8:38] Christoph Lange: It allows for combining a formal category hierarchy with informal labels     (1J169)

[8:39] Christoph Lange: As soon as we represent "folksonomy tags" with URIs, we can link them to an     (1J170)

existing SKOS scheme     (1J171)

[8:45] DanielCoutoVale: Documenting my comment: the kind of user interaction that we want to allow     (1J172)

is dependent on whether we have a folksonomy or a controlled taxonomy. On the one hand, because     (1J173)

users tend to be unsure about the tags that would promote their content or be confident in the wrong     (1J174)

direction, suggesting the most commonly searched and used tags to the annotator and suggesting the     (1J175)

existent tags to the searcher might be a necessary convergence step if we go for an open set of     (1J176)

tags. On the other hand, not offering the freedom of choosing any tag might allow us to offer other     (1J177)

kinds of user face interaction which are not text fields.     (1J178)

[8:41] Francesca Quattri: hey Everyone, thanks, great talk!     (1J179)

[8:41] Christoph Lange: Thanks, bye!     (1J180)

[8:--] Michael Grüninger: would be good to have a "Metadata" session to follow-up on today's discussion     (1J181)

[8:42] Peter P. Yim: no OOR session next Tue 2013.10.15 - there will be a Common Logic (CLv2) meeting that day     (1J182)

[8:42] Peter P. Yim: no OOR session on Tue 2013.10.22 either, ISWC will be in session that week     (1J183)

[8:43] Peter P. Yim: @Michael, Todd, Ken, Till, et al. - let's work on the details about the program for     (1J184)

the Tue 2013.10.29 session offline     (1J185)

[8:44] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 8:41am PDT --     (1J186)

-- end in-session chat-transcript --     (1J187)

5. Action items:     (1J188)

6. Any Other Business:     (1J190)

  • Scheduling the events/programs for the next three Tuesday OOR meeting slots     (1J191)

7. Schedule Next Meeting & Adjourn:     (1J192)

  • next Meeting     (1J193)
    • no OOR session on Tue 2013.10.15 & 10.22 ... we'll work up the Tue 2013.10.29 program offline     (1J193A)
  • regular meeting start-times will be: 7:00am PDT / 10:00am EDT / 4:00pm CEST / 3:00pm BST / 1400 UTC     (1J194)
  • 1st Tuesdays of each month will be for OOR team regular monthly confcall - for admin/planning     (1J195)
  • 2nd Tuesdays of each month will be for OOR-hackathon     (1J196)
  • ... please mark your calendars and make sure you can come!     (1J197)

notes taken by: Peter P. Yim / 2013.10.08-9:00am PDT     (1J200)

All participants, please review and edit to enhance accuracy and granularity of the documented proceedings.     (1J201)


Resources     (1K)

  • the Joint IAOA-OOR-Ontolog "Ontologies and Standards" mini-series:     (1K18)


This page has been migrated from the OntologWiki - Click here for original page     (1K27)