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Joint RulesReasoningLP (s05) and OntologyBasedStandards (s07) mini-series session - Thu 2014_01_09

Program: A Joint session for the Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications (RulesReasoningLP) mini-series and the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series

Topic: Rule Standards: Common Logic, RuleML, and RIF

Session Co-chairs: Professor HaroldBoley (U of New Brunswick), Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon BBN Technologies) & Professor AdrianPaschke (Freie Universität Berlin) ... intro slides

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Professor MichaelGruninger (IAOA; U of Toronto) - "Common Logic Second Edition" - slides
  • Professor AdrianPaschke (RuleML; Freie Universität Berlin) - "The RuleML Perspective on Deliberation-Reaction Standards" - slides
  • Professor MichaelKifer (W3C/RIF; Stony Brook University) - "The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects" - slides

Archives

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 9-Jan-2014
  • Start Time: 9:30am PST / 12:30pm EST / 6:30pm CET / 17:30 GMT/UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours
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Attendees

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Abstract

Rule Standards: Common Logic, RuleML, and RIF ... intro slides

This is the 5th session of the RulesReasoningLP mini-series - a series of virtual panel sessions, and the associated online discourse, co-championed by some members of the Ontolog community who value the importance of the subject matter and would want to bring together those who are knowledgeable or interested into a dialog. The mini-series program will cover the topics that encapsulates the ontology-driven applications that will generally fall under "Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications."

The focus of this session is on standards for rule languages. Panelists include Michael Grüninger (Common Logic Second Edition), Adrian Paschke (The RuleML Perspective on Deliberation-Reaction Standards), and Michael Kifer (The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects).

After the panelists briefings, there will be time for Q&A and an open discussion among the panel and all the participants.

See more details at: RulesReasoningLP (homepage for this mini-series)

Briefings

  • Professor MichaelGruninger (IAOA; U of Toronto) - "Common Logic Second Edition" - slides
    • Abstract: Common Logic (ISO 24707) is a family of logic languages whose

model-theoretic semantics is an extension of first-order logic Since its publication as an International Standard in 2007, numerous applications of Common Logic have led to the identification of several problems and shortcomings of the language. This talk will give an overview of the current draft for the Second Edition of Common Logic that addresses these issues.

  • Professor AdrianPaschke (Freie Universität Berlin) - "The RuleML Perspective on Deliberation-Reaction Standards" - slides
    • Abstract: RuleML is a family of XML languages whose modular system of schemas permits (Web) rule interchange via semantic profiles and extensions. The Deliberation RuleML subfamily, bridging between Common Logic and RIF, includes Datalog, Horn logic, and First Order Logic. The Reaction RuleML subfamily, extending these standards, includes Production / Condition-Action (CA) and Event-Condition-Action (ECA) rules, the latter allowing Complex Event Processing (CEP). The MYNG tool permits fine-grained schema modularization supporting customized configuration of deliberation-reaction sublanguages within a standardized supremum language family. Translators in Java, ANTLR, and XSLT allow rule interchange between various languages. We discuss RuleML's bridging experience as the rule community is gaining new momentum.
    • Reference: see (slides for) an extended version of this presentation here
  • Professor MichaelKifer (Stony Brook University) - "The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects" - slides
    • Abstract: The Rule Interchange Format (RIF) is a W3C recommendation for exchanging

rules over the Web. It was developed in response to the need for rule-based information processing on the Semantic Web. Despite its humble name, RIF is not just a format and is not primarily about syntax. It is an extensible framework for rule-based languages, called RIF dialects. It includes precise and formal specification of the syntax, semantics, and XML serialization of the dialects. In this talk I will discuss the main principles behind RIF, introduce the RIF extensibility framework, discuss the existing RIF dialects, and ponder about the current status of the standard.

    • Reference: see (slides for) an extended version of this presentation here

Agenda

Joint RulesReasoningLP (s05) & OntologyBasedStandards (s07) session

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call

Proceedings

Please refer to the above ... (details coming!)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20140109

2014-01-09 GMT-08:00 [PST]

[9:15] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the

Joint RulesReasoningLP (s05) and OntologyBasedStandards (s07) mini-series session - 2014_01_09

Program: A Joint session for the Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications

(RulesReasoningLP) mini-series and the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series

Topic: Rule Standards: Common Logic, RuleML, and RIF

Session Co-chairs:

  • Mr. Mike Dean (Raytheon BBN Technologies), and

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Professor Michael Kifer (W3C/RIF; Stony Brook University) - "The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects"

Logistics:

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName
  • Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute
    • you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online

(i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)

    • if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or

VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100

... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#

    • Can't find Skype Dial pad?
      • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
      • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later)

if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it.

Attendees: Adrian Paschke, Alex Shkotin, Ali Hashemi, Amanda Vizedom, Anatoly Levenchuk,

Andrea Westerinen, Benjamin Grosof, Biplab Sarker, Bob Kowalski, Bobbin Teegarden, Conrad Bock,

Dennis Pierson, Elizabeth Florescu, Frank Olken, GenZou, Harold Boley, HassanAitKaci, Henson Graves,

Joel Bender, JohnMcClure, Jonathan Bona, Ken Baclawski, Leo Obrst, Marwan Ghabin, Michael Grüninger,

Michael Kifer, Mike Bennett, Mike Dean, Nancy Wiegand, Paul Fodor, Paul Tyson, Pete Rivett, Peter P. Yim,

Pieter Pauwels, Pipauwel, Rex Brooks, Roy Bell, Steve Mandl, Tara Athan, Todd Pehle, Todd Schneider,

Tom Tinsley, Victor Agroskin,

Err:510

[9:06] anonymous morphed into Pipauwel

[9:16] Peter P. Yim: hello, Pipauwel ... Welcome! ... please morph into your RealName (in wikiword

format) via the "Settings" button/link ... thank you.

[9:19] anonymous morphed into Andrea Westerinen

[9:23] Pipauwel morphed into Pieter Pauwels

[9:23] Pieter Pauwels: okay, just did that

[9:23] Pieter Pauwels: thank you

[9:26] Peter P. Yim: Thank you, Pieter

[9:28] anonymous morphed into Amanda Vizedom

[9:31] anonymous morphed into Conrad Bock

[9:31] Mike Bennett: [ref. Peter;s verbal comment that the "hum" on the line may have been introduced

by Mike] I am muted locally buzz isn't me?

[9:31] Mike Bennett: I'll redial

[9:32] Mike Bennett: Did it stop? Was using joiconference

[9:32] Amanda Vizedom: phew!

[9:32] Amanda Vizedom: It did stop, Mike

[9:32] Mike Bennett: Odd. I could hear it too, which is odd if one is the originator of a noise.

[9:32] anonymous morphed into Tara Athan

[9:33] anonymous morphed into Paul Tyson

[9:33] anonymous morphed into Adrian Paschke

[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into Michael Kifer

[9:34] Ali Hashemi morphed into Ali Hashemi

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Biplab Sarker

[9:34] Amanda Vizedom: Lots of background noise today. Perhaps people with stuff going on around them

could mute locally, if they don't need to speak now.

[9:34] Mike Bennett: Any quieter? Muted locally of course.

[9:35] Amanda Vizedom: Normal level of background noise now. The star wars effects went away. :-)

[9:36] Mike Bennett: T.

[9:48] Peter P. Yim: @MikeBennett ... apologies, it was HensonGraves' phone line, and not yours, that

was injecting the hum earlier!

[9:49] Mike Bennett: @Peter No worries, I changed as many things as I could anyway.

[9:34] anonymous morphed into Pete Rivett

[9:36] anonymous morphed into Dennis Pierson

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Bobbin Teegarden

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Paul Fodor

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Anatoly Levenchuk

[9:37] Peter P. Yim: == Harold Boley started the session ...

[9:38] anonymous1 morphed into Steve Mandl

[9:41] anonymous morphed into Benjamin Grosof

[9:41] anonymous1 morphed into Elizabeth Florescu

[9:47] LeoObrst1 morphed into Leo Obrst

[9:41] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Grüninger presenting ... refer to slides under:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_01_09#nid438F

[9:49] Anatoly Levenchuk: [ref. MichaelGruninger's slide#5 enumerating standards that uses

CommonLogic] What about OMG SBVR (it is ontology standard with reference to Common Logic too)?

[9:50] Peter P. Yim: @MichaelGruninger: slide#5 - OntoIOp ("OMG" instead of "ISO") ... will supply an

update to this slide

[9:46] Leo Obrst: @MichaelGruninger: do you have an example of something in the Universe of Reference

that is not in the Universe of Discourse?

[9:50] Tara Athan: @Leo- the universe of discourse is simply the subset of the universe of reference

that quantifier range over. It is a matter of design. An upper ontology could use a domain of

reference containing (only) spatial entities, and have a parthood relation P that describes the

mereology. The symbol P does not denote any spatial entity, so it is in the universe of reference,

but not in the universe of discourse.

[9:51] anonymous morphed into Tom Tinsley

[9:53] anonymous morphed into JohnMcClure

[9:53] anonymous morphed into Joel Bender

[9:56] anonymous morphed into Rex Brooks

[10:01] Todd Schneider: @MichaelGruninger, when the CL update is finalized will it be made available

without charge?

[10:05] Michael Grüninger: @ToddSchneider -- yes, it will be available without charge, but you will

need to access it through the ISO website and agree to the copyright terms specified there.

[10:08] Tara Athan: The free version of the current CL standard can be accessed through this page:

http://iso-commonlogic.org/

[10:04] Peter P. Yim: == Adrian Paschke presenting ...

[10:26] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Kifer presenting ...

[10:31] Harold Boley: Michael K is now on slide 4.

[10:32] Leo Obrst: Thanks, Tara. What if you wanted a family of P part relations, and wanted to

quantify over those: then P would go into the universe of discourse? That's quantifying over

relations, however. Maybe my example here is somewhat contrived.

[10:34] Michael Grüninger: @LeoObrst: Yes, that is what is going on in slide 14 (titled Segregated

and Unsegregated Dialects)

[10:35] Benjamin Grosof: It will be interesting to figure out the RuleLog angle of the open CL

semantic/syntactic issues. of the semantic and syntactic issues listed for CL by MichaelGruninger.

One such issue for Rulelog may be circularity in inclusion (KB import).

[10:35] Leo Obrst: @AdrianPaschke: can you only have negation-as-failure for Reaction rules? Or also

a form of logical negation?

[11:08] Adrian Paschke: @Leo: negation in the definition of complex event definitions (event

patterns) is typically an event operator, which means this event should not occur within an interval

of events or time intervals. Negation can also occur in the condition part of reaction rules. Here

it can be negation as failure as in normal logic programs or strong negation as in extended logic

programs. There are also extensions of production rules for complex event processing where the

negation is a kind of inflationary negation.

[10:50] Leo Obrst: @MichaelKifer: if one wanted to map between CL and RIF, I guess it would be to the

RIF-FLD, right? Has that been considered?

[10:53] Benjamin Grosof: In regard to RIF dialects development: Also, one of the first dialects

drafted under RIF FLD is for Rulelog (earlier called SILK). Currently this is being developed via

RuleML, with probable submission to W3C and OASIS.

[10:54] Benjamin Grosof: SILK project was one of the first implementations of RIF-BLD.

[10:55] Todd Schneider: @MichaelGruninger, What is the prognosis for commercial support for CL? In

particular reasoners?

[10:57] Bob Kowalski: Are inductive definition included in Common Logic?

[10:57] Tara Athan: Actually it is possible to have a segregated dialect and still quantify over

  • some* relations (like hilog.)

[10:58] Michael Grüninger: @BobKowalski: No, inductive definitions are not covered by Common Logic.

[11:01] Tara Athan: yes

[10:58] Harold Boley: @Benjamin, is your Question about CL or RIF?

[11:01] Benjamin Grosof: my question is about CL

[11:02] Paul Tyson: @MichaelKifer on slide 20 all hyperlinks go to w3c rif-bld spec.

[11:03] Michael Kifer: @PaulTyson: sorry, the FLD link should be changed: bld->fld ... [PeterYim:

slide has now been updated]

[11:08] Adrian Paschke: have to leave now to catch my train.

[11:08] Alex Shkotin: @Peter, it should be interesting to invite Hets project somebody to talk:-)

[--:--] Peter P. Yim: @AlexShkotin, we have had presentations of that before (a little while back,

though.) Take a look at: - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2008_01_31 ...

slide#43 ( John Bateman / Till Mossakowski / Oliver Kutz / JoanaHois), and -

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10 ... the

JohnBateman-TillMossakowski talk

[11:08] Amanda Vizedom: Glad to hear that, in CL, things like provenance that are currently in

(non-machine-useful) annotations will likely be represented semantically, machine-readably, and

therefore presumably available for reasoning.

[11:10] Adrian Paschke: (have to leave) if you have questions about RuleML I will respond later via

the chat or you can send me an email. bye.

[11:10] Benjamin Grosof: @MichaelKifer: how would the example on MichaelGruninger's slide 10 be

treated in Rulelog, i.e., in Hilog?

[11:16] Tara Athan: In hilog, don't you have to explicitly state that the new relation is a hilog

relation?

[11:10] Michael Kifer: @Benjamin: I need to think about MichaelGruninger's slide 10.

[11:15] Ali Hashemi: @MichaelGruninger - do you know if the PrIKL project is still under development?

http://prikl.sourceforge.net/

[11:30] Michael Grüninger: @AliHashemi: I am not sure about the current status of PrIKL. We should

contact Fabian Neuhaus

[11:15] Leo Obrst: Related to my question about a mapping between CL and RIF-FLD, perhaps the mapping

between those should actually occur in OntoIOp?

[11:23] Amanda Vizedom: @BenjaminGrosof, Michael Grüninger -- this is important: the mapping itself

happens in a theory, and the original one need not inherit from it.

[11:32] Tara Athan: RIF-FLD is not a language. You would have to define a particular specialization

before using OntoIOp to map it to CL.

[11:30] Ali Hashemi: I'm unsure there is a fundamental disagreement. Theories can extend or interpret

one another in a variety of ways. Being able to track and exploit conservative extensions leads to a

lot of useful outcomes...

[11:30] Ali Hashemi: (I guess I got lost as to where the disagreement is)

[11:33] Amanda Vizedom: I agree Ali. I think the initial disagreement arose from a difference in the

kind of uses people were thinking of; there seems to be agreement on the general point that you can

usefully have nonconservative extension when you have the right kind of awareness / specification of

the (non)-inheritance relations between the original and extension-including theories.

[11:33] Ali Hashemi: @BenjaminGrosof and @MichaelKifer, I'm unsure what the position is re

conservative extensions

[11:33] Michael Kifer: @TaraAthan: You are right. One needs to define a CL dialect as a

specialization of FLD

[11:34] Tara Athan: @MichaelKifer - it would be an interesting exercise.

[11:35] Ali Hashemi: It seems useful that any system should be able to discriminate what type of

extensions or mappings two theories have to one another.

[11:36] Tara Athan: @Ali- yes. The original CL semantics did not allow a choice. In the revision,

there is a choice.

[11:37] Amanda Vizedom: @Ali - yes, and that is essential to defining modules, imports,

interoperability, spindle structures, etc. But I think it is also true that it gets insufficient

attention (in that people do mapping without tending to it.

[11:36] Michael Kifer: @AlexShkotin: I guess, we agreed to disagree. Our position is that it we don't

think that the mappings should be conservative extensions, but, if necessary, the mappings can be

restricted to ensure that they are conservative.

[11:24] Paul Tyson: Is it off-topic to ask who is using these languages (or another rule language) in

an industrial (not academic) application? Which language(s)? Why (or why not)? What for?

[11:31] Alex Shkotin: @PaulTyson session 2013_12_19 was very interesting ... may be here

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_12_19

[11:32] Paul Tyson: @Alex thanks, I have not caught up on all the preceding sessions.

[11:33] Peter P. Yim: Great session!

[11:33] Peter P. Yim: Join us again, same time, next Thursday, when we will be featuring the

Ontology Summit 2014 Launch Event, on 16-Jan-2014 ... mark your calendars and watch out for further

announcements and developing details at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_01_16

[11:33] Leo Obrst: Thanks, all. Very good session!

[11:33] Amanda Vizedom: Thanks all

[11:37] Alex Shkotin: C u:-)

[11:34] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:32am PST --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --

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