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Ontology Summit 2012 Launch Event - Thu 2012-01-12     (1)

  • Topic: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"     (1A)
  • General Co-chairs: Dr. Nicola Guarino & Dr. LeoObrst     (1B)

Abstract: Goals & Objectives     (1F)

OntologySummit2012 Theme: "Ontology for Big Systems"     (1F1)

This is our 7th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO, IAOA & NCO_NITRD with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Ontology for Big Systems." In an earlier planning session last month, the community and subsequently, the summit organizing committee members brainstormed on the choice of theme and how best to frame the issues. These inputs were carefully reviewed and synthesized by the Ontology Summit Organizing Committee and its leadership. It is this plan and program that we will be discussing with everyone during today's launch event.     (1F2)

During this 3-month Summit, we seek to explore, identify and articulate how ontological methods can bring value to the various disciplines required to engineer a "big system." The term "big system" is intended to cover a large scope that includes many of the terms encountered in the media such as big data, complex techno-socio-economic systems, intelligent or smart systems, cloud computing, netcentricity and collective intelligence. Established disciplines that fall within the summit scope include (but not limited to) systems engineering, software engineering, information systems modelling, and data mining.     (1F3)

The principal goal of the summit is to bring together and foster collaboration between the ontology community, systems community, and stakeholders of some of "big systems." Together, the summit participants will exchange ideas on how ontological analysis and ontology engineering might make a difference, when applied in these "big systems." We will aim towards producing a series of recommendations describing how ontologies can create an impact; as well as providing illustrations where these techniques have been, or could be, applied in domains such as bioinformatics, electronic health records, intelligence, the smart electrical grid, manufacturing and supply chains, earth and environmental, e-science, cyberphysical systems and e-government. As is traditional with the Ontology Summit series, the results will be captured in the form of a communiqu��, with expanded supporting material provided on the web.     (1F4)

The 2012 Ontology Summit officially begins with today's launch event. We are initiating a series of topical online discussions, virtual panel sessions, studies, synthesis exercises, etc. which will take place, virtually, over the next 3 months. All of these will come together with a face-to-face meeting on April 12 & 13 in Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).     (1F5)

See developing details at: OntologySummit2012 (home page for this summit)     (1F6)

Agenda     (1G)

Ontology Summit 2012 Launch     (1G1)

  • Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call - [ slides ]     (1G2)

Proceedings     (1H)

Please refer to the above     (1H1)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session    (1H2)

see raw transcript here.     (1H2A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1H2B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1H2C)

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --     (1H2D)

Ontology Summit 2012 Launch Event - Thu 2012-01-12     (1H2F)

Topic: Ontology Summit 2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"     (1H2G)

Co-chairs: Dr. Nicola Guarino & Dr. Leo Obrst     (1H2H)

Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute     (1H2J)

Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1H2K)

Proceedings:     (1H2L)

anonymous morphed into Bob Schloss     (1H2M)

anonymous morphed into Steve Ray     (1H2N)

BobSmith1 morphed into Bob Smith     (1H2O)

anonymous morphed into Doug Foxvog     (1H2P)

anonymous1 morphed into Giancarlo Guizzardi     (1H2Q)

anonymous1 morphed into Yefim (Jeff) Zhuk     (1H2S)

mariakeet morphed into Maria Keet     (1H2T)

anonymous morphed into Elizabeth Florescu     (1H2U)

Kathy Ellis morphed into Kathy Ellis     (1H2V)

anonymous1 morphed into Larry Lefkowitz     (1H2W)

anonymous morphed into Richard Detsch     (1H2X)

anonymous2 morphed into GaryBergCross     (1H2Y)

anonymous morphed into Simon Spero     (1H2Z)

anonymous3 morphed into Bart Gajderowicz     (1H2AA)

Simon Spero: The importance of your call is high     (1H2AB)

anonymous morphed into Bryan Thompson     (1H2AC)

Line Pouchard morphed into Line Pouchard     (1H2AD)

nicola morphed into Nicola Guarino     (1H2AE)

anonymous morphed into Karl Grossner     (1H2AF)

anonymous1 morphed into RosarioUcedaSosa     (1H2AG)

Ali Hashemi: Refresh the session page     (1H2AH)

Steve Ray: Slides are being uploaded as we speak. Hang on.     (1H2AI)

Ali Hashemi: Slides usually appear there     (1H2AJ)

Leo Obrst: Peter is still making the slides available. Stay tuned shortly.     (1H2AK)

anonymous morphed into Arun Majumdar     (1H2AL)

anonymous1 morphed into Jim Schoening     (1H2AO)

Bryan Thompson: How do you enter the pin into skype?     (1H2AP)

Ali Hashemi: Click Show Dial Pad     (1H2AR)

Ali Hashemi: it's in the menu bar     (1H2AS)

anonymous morphed into Chris Welty     (1H2AT)

Doug Foxvog: To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6"     (1H2AU)

Chris Welty: hello boys and girls     (1H2AV)

Ali Hashemi: And for the slides, remember to refresh this page:     (1H2AW)

Simon Spero: Are slide decks 5 and 8 not there yet?     (1H2AY)

Peter P. Yim: @simon: hang on ... they will soon be uploaded     (1H2AZ)

anonymous1 morphed into MariaTeresaBiagetti     (1H2AAA)

Rex Brooks: I'm not on the phone yet--in another meeting for next half hour.     (1H2AAB)

anonymous morphed into Eric Little     (1H2AAC)

Dalia Varanka morphed into Dalia Varanka     (1H2AAD)

Chris Welty: 10 years of Ontolog - credit mainly to Peter, congrats!     (1H2AAE)

Peter P. Yim: thank you, Chris.     (1H2AAF)

Chris Welty morphed into a TV star     (1H2AAG)

Ram D. Sriram: Peter: Was the presentation on Siri in Feb 2010 or Feb 2011?     (1H2AAJ)

Peter P. Yim: @Ram - the Siri presentation was in Feb-2010 - see:     (1H2AAK)

Apple acquisition, they have not been presenting their technology to the public much at all     (1H2AAM)

RosarioUcedaSosa: I have problems accessing Sri's slides... everybody else's connection to the     (1H2AAN)

server is ok?     (1H2AAO)

Steve Ray: [a portion, relating to internal architecture of] the slides supporting the Siri talk were     (1H2AAP)

not stored, by request of Adam Cheyer and TomGruber. There was some proprietary information there.     (1H2AAQ)

Steve Ray: Ah, confusion between Sri (aka Sriram) and Siri, as in TomGruber's talk years ago.     (1H2AAR)

Simon Spero: Applying results of last years summit to use cases?     (1H2AAS)

Joel Bender: What is "large"?     (1H2AAT)

Ali Hashemi: @Rosario - it took a while to load for me to. If you are having tuoble with the slides     (1H2AAU)

you can also try the vnc I believe:     (1H2AAV)

RosarioUcedaSosa: Got it restored now. Thx     (1H2AAW)

a TV star morphed into Chris Welty     (1H2AAX)

Doug Foxvog: The slides are not being advanced.     (1H2AAY)

Simon Spero: Are we getting in to the space of Translational Medicine?     (1H2AAAA)

Chris Welty: who is the person talking?     (1H2AAAB)

anonymous2 morphed into Frank Olken     (1H2AAAD)

RosarioUcedaSosa: Seems to me that the first three tracks and the fourth track are just two     (1H2AAAE)

dimensions (system-based vs domain-based) of the problem.     (1H2AAAF)

Nicola Guarino: @Rosario: indeed track 4 is orthogonal wrt the first three tracks. Some people     (1H2AAAG)

thought it was useful to have a track explicitly focusing on applications     (1H2AAAH)

Rex Brooks: Its a bit odd that I don't have time to work on this year's summit because I'm working on     (1H2AAAI)

some big systems, though at the ground level getting the terms and datatypes entered for emergency     (1H2AAAJ)

management systems so that larger convergences will be possible among international as well as     (1H2AAAK)

national, state and local levels of jurisdiction. So I will probably be intermittent, and looking to     (1H2AAAL)

learn more than contribute.     (1H2AAAM)

Simon Spero: Big Data Management and Big Data interpretation are very, very different beasts     (1H2AAAN)

Nicola Guarino: @Simon: Yes, indeed I expect the focus will be manly on interpretation     (1H2AAAO)

Amanda Vizedom: It's also worth noting that the fourth listed track, "Large-scale domain     (1H2AAAP)

applications," lists some topics that meet the "domain applications" description, and some topics     (1H2AAAQ)

that are not really domain applications but rather analytics and/or implementation views on big     (1H2AAAR)

systems (e.g., net-centricity, socio-technical aspects of large systems).     (1H2AAAS)

Nicola Guarino: @Amanda: Yes, indeed some of these keywords need to be adjusted, clarified or     (1H2AAAT)

possibly deleted. This will be part of future work. We wanted just to be as inclusive as possible     (1H2AAAU)

for the time being     (1H2AAAV)

Simon Spero: @Nicola - there's a lot of places where 'ontology of ' and 'ontology for ' are fighting     (1H2AAAW)

Bart Gajderowicz: @AmandaVizedom- it may mean domain-specific applications, verses architecture     (1H2AAAX)

related issues     (1H2AAAY)

Amanda Vizedom: @BartGajderowicz: yes, I agree. My comment was meant to point out that some     (1H2AAAZ)

non-domain-specific things had snuck in there.     (1H2AAAAA)

RosarioUcedaSosa: I mentioned the two-dimensional structure because it may help us identify the key     (1H2AAAAB)

issues in these systems. My colleague Bob Schloss and I have been working on ontologies for Smarter     (1H2AAAAC)

cities and we've found challenges at the three tracks that you specify, including the fact that an     (1H2AAAAD)

ontology for Smart Cities is an 'integrating' ontology, versus a normative/prescriptive model, like     (1H2AAAAE)

in other domains. The point is that different domains may require a different approach to ontology     (1H2AAAAF)

Ali Hashemi: Rosario, I believe there will also be a preliminary session where we explore various     (1H2AAAAH)

interpretations of big systems. In the course of these discussions, I suspect the different required     (1H2AAAAI)

approaches will be articulated.     (1H2AAAAJ)

Amanda Vizedom: There is a lot of variety in how we all view the topics, issues, and distinctions.     (1H2AAAAK)

Among our first challenges is to come to agree on a good-enough selection of tracks/foci with which     (1H2AAAAL)

to organize the content and process. I think that we all understand that the result is imperfect and     (1H2AAAAM)

has some arbitrariness to it, but the settlement and focus are necessary, especially with Summit     (1H2AAAAN)

topic that is so broad. Thank, Nicola and Leo, for setting a starting structure.     (1H2AAAAO)

Nicola Guarino: @Simon: In many cases we need both: we need "ontology of" in order to have "ontology     (1H2AAAAP)

Simon Spero: @Nicola Total agreement     (1H2AAAAR)

RosarioUcedaSosa: I'd be very interested in following/participating.     (1H2AAAAS)

Chris Welty: Rosario: we generally take "domain" to mean the general subject area of the ontology     (1H2AAAAT)

content. I think you mean the way the ontology is used will/may require a different approach     (1H2AAAAU)

anonymous1 morphed into Nancy Grady     (1H2AAAAV)

Amanda Vizedom: On the topic of spreading the word: twitter hashtag is #ontologysummit2012.     (1H2AAAAW)

Arun Majumdar: General Comment: one area of challenge to me is the model based, versus     (1H2AAAAX)

data-engineering and ontology based methodologies --- I see these in my current moderate data     (1H2AAAAY)

problems and can envision the problem is of importance to big data. For example, models have     (1H2AAAAZ)

implicit ontologies but many ontologies are themselves implicitly models while in other cases data     (1H2AAAAAA)

or information engineering has its own ontological and model commitments that are often never made     (1H2AAAAAB)

explicit. I would be very keen to see any intersections that include model-based, ontology-based and     (1H2AAAAAC)

data-engineering driven big data ontology approach (itself, of course, being an ontology for such).     (1H2AAAAAD)

Todd Schneider: Arun, these subjects and their relations should be covered in the Large-Scale Systems     (1H2AAAAAE)

Engineering track     (1H2AAAAAF)

Arun Majumdar: @Todd - let's communicate more on this: I am very keen on this.     (1H2AAAAAI)

Arun Majumdar: @Todd - thanks, will do     (1H2AAAAAK)

Amanda Vizedom: @Arun: IME, the issues you raise are especially strong in Federated systems and     (1H2AAAAAL)

interoperability-focused projects. This is also an area that has been suggested for one or more     (1H2AAAAAM)

sessions (primarily by Cory Casanave, though it looks like he is not on today).     (1H2AAAAAN)

Simon Spero: Administrivia Q: During the summit, there was a shared google doc editing setup. That     (1H2AAAAAO)

seemed to work well, and might work well earlier in the process     (1H2AAAAAP)

Simon Spero: Is it still there?     (1H2AAAAAQ)

Peter P. Yim: @SimonSpero - ref. use of google-docs - good point; let's make sure the communique lead     (1H2AAAAAR)

editors, or even the track champions take that into consideration     (1H2AAAAAS)

anonymous1 morphed into Kurt Conrad     (1H2AAAAAT)

Amanda Vizedom: @Rosario: Regarding the challenges you've encountered in your Smarter cities work: I     (1H2AAAAAU)

wouldn't call those issues domain-specific; they appear in many domains. They are, however, related     (1H2AAAAAV)

to the type of project in a variety of ways orthogonal to domain: e.g. the functions of the system,     (1H2AAAAAW)

the uses it must support, the resources available, the technical and policy requirements that may     (1H2AAAAAX)

apply, the level of complexity, etc...     (1H2AAAAAY)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Amanda: Agree. I meant that there are several basic parameters that focus the     (1H2AAAAAZ)

functionality and structure of the ontology     (1H2AAAAAAA)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Amanda: Identifying these issues would be very useful.     (1H2AAAAAAB)

Todd Schneider: Rosario, what your addressing is the architecture for the use of ontologies and     (1H2AAAAAAD)

semantic technologies.     (1H2AAAAAAE)

Bob Schloss: I am still not sure how the various scheduled teleconferences will be used. Will each     (1H2AAAAAAG)

one include only 1 of the 4 tracks? Will a schedule be placed on the ontolog website sometime in the     (1H2AAAAAAH)

next week or two?     (1H2AAAAAAI)

GaryBergCross: Two dates were listed as possible for the Summit. How will final dates be decided and     (1H2AAAAAAJ)

when will that be?     (1H2AAAAAAK)

Frank Olken: Regarding possible dates for the face-to-face meeting please note that Data Engineering     (1H2AAAAAAL)

Conference will be in DC the first week of April, and the SIAM Data Mining meeting will be April     (1H2AAAAAAM)

26-28 in Anaheim, Calif. I tend to favor the later dates for the face to face April 23-24.     (1H2AAAAAAN)

Arun Majumdar: I prefer April 23-24 also     (1H2AAAAAAO)

GaryBergCross: I prefer April 23-24 also. There is a Wherecon during the earlier week in April     (1H2AAAAAAP)

Ali Hashemi: Folks, I've got to run. Thanks to all for the effort.     (1H2AAAAAAR)

Nicola Guarino: @Ali: thanks for your contributions, Ali     (1H2AAAAAAS)

Nicola Guarino: For the record, I encourage all those who are making oral questions or comments to     (1H2AAAAAAT)

also write them down on the chat     (1H2AAAAAAU)

Joel Bender: @Rosario : please post your call for participation for that topic to the list     (1H2AAAAAAV)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Joel: This is what I propose: to spell out the usability issues for the ontology     (1H2AAAAAAW)

consumers (end/business users) in some of these domains.     (1H2AAAAAAX)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Nicola/@Joel: Which list? this chat?     (1H2AAAAAAY)

Bob Schloss: @Rosario -- [ontology-summit] mailing list archives -     (1H2AAAAAAZ) (31H1) To subscribe to this discussion list: send a     (1H2AAAAAAAA)

blank message from your subscribing email address to <> or     (1H2AAAAAAAB)

Joanne Luciano: have to leave now. thanks everyone! Looking forward to this summit.     (1H2AAAAAAAD)

Doug Foxvog: The three levels of ontologizing being discussed seem to be     (1H2AAAAAAAE)

Amanda Vizedom: @Rosario: Indeed! Have you seen the start that was made in this direction during last     (1H2AAAAAAAI)

just a start, but a useful one. Developing it further and building support for it is something a     (1H2AAAAAAAK)

number of us have been looking for opportunities/means to pursue.     (1H2AAAAAAAL)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Amanda: No, but I'll take a look at that. In the case of complex systems, the     (1H2AAAAAAAM)

notion of an ontology consumer becomes key.     (1H2AAAAAAAN)

Peter P. Yim: @JackRing - can you re-post the message that you just typed into the "queue" box, please     (1H2AAAAAAAO)

Matthew West: I have to leave now. Looks like we have a flying start.     (1H2AAAAAAAP)

Arun Majumdar: Bye All - I have to leave also.     (1H2AAAAAAAQ)

Todd Schneider: Doug, your distinctions would be represented in the architecture I mentioned earlier.     (1H2AAAAAAAR)

Frank Olken: Peter, The instructions for joining the teleconference via Skype were unclear - what     (1H2AAAAAAAS)

Skype ID? I used regular phone, but would prefer to use skype in the future.     (1H2AAAAAAAT)

Peter P. Yim: @Frank, if you use skype, all you need to do is to skype the user by the     (1H2AAAAAAAU)

skypeID:"joinconference" ... one way to do that is to just paste "joinconference" (without the " ")     (1H2AAAAAAAV)

into the dial-command-line (where you would usually type in the phone number) then you will be     (1H2AAAAAAAW)

prompted to key in a ConferenceID or the PIN ... the challenge for some is that in the latest skype     (1H2AAAAAAAX)

software, the dial-pad is somewhat hidden ... and hence my earlier comment: Can't find Skype Dial     (1H2AAAAAAAY)

pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1H2AAAAAAAZ)

Amanda Vizedom: @Rosario: I couldn't agree more. And it is often overlooked that the ontologies in     (1H2AAAAAAAAA)

these cases need to be understandable by both machines and humans, often both as part of the     (1H2AAAAAAAAB)

system's processes and as external consumers.     (1H2AAAAAAAAC)

RosarioUcedaSosa: @Amanda: Absolutely. Usability is not a 'topic' but a dimension that should be     (1H2AAAAAAAAD)

spelled out every time we discuss a domain.     (1H2AAAAAAAAE)

Maria Keet: on data mining, there is the e-LICO project ... as a response on     (1H2AAAAAAAAF)

Nicolas note on looking for people who work on data mining     (1H2AAAAAAAAG)

Maria Keet: I'm calling in with the number. I just wanted to illustrate the e-LICO project, which     (1H2AAAAAAAAH)

extends semantic scientific workflows with data mining ontologies and domain ontologies     (1H2AAAAAAAAI)

Bob Schloss: I think we would do well to be clear about the "use cases" associated with the     (1H2AAAAAAAAJ)

ontology-consumer role that @Rosario is bringing up. One use case is "become familiar with what the     (1H2AAAAAAAAK)

scope of the ontology is" -- put information into the person's head. Another use case is "be able to     (1H2AAAAAAAAL)

prepare to contribute information to the ontology conforming with its current structure and sets of     (1H2AAAAAAAAM)

types/classes/concepts". Another use case is "extend the set of     (1H2AAAAAAAAN)

concepts/types/classes/associative-relationships which are initially present in the ontology, for     (1H2AAAAAAAAO)

contributing my own information and for hoped for use by others", etc. etc. Each of these has sub     (1H2AAAAAAAAP)

use cases -- "search" "visualization" "navigation" etc etc.     (1H2AAAAAAAAQ)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: In the process of engineering Large-Scale complex system we will have the     (1H2AAAAAAAAR)

situation in which multiple languages, methods and tools will have to co-exist and be integrated.     (1H2AAAAAAAAS)

Traditionally, in systems engineering, there has been for years a trend towards different     (1H2AAAAAAAAT)

manifestations of model-based approaches to address this issue. An important issue to be emphasized     (1H2AAAAAAAAU)

is that language (method) integration is a semantic interoperability problem it is about the     (1H2AAAAAAAAV)

semantic interoperation of models which happen to be language (method) metamodels.     (1H2AAAAAAAAW)

Frank Olken: @SteveRay, I am still interested in Smart Grids.     (1H2AAAAAAAAX)

Steve Ray: @FrankOlken: Was that you on the phone expressing interest in smart grid? I didn't catch     (1H2AAAAAAAAY)

who was talking. [ppy: believe that was JoelBender]     (1H2AAAAAAAAZ)

Todd Schneider: Giancarlo, I would hope the summit would take a forward looking approach (i.e., the     (1H2AAAAAAAAAA)

to-be state) and look past current practices and tools: Where do we think we can be.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAB)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @ToddSchneider: Sure. What I mentioned there is forward thinking. We are far     (1H2AAAAAAAAAC)

from mastering the issue of semantic interoperability of multiple languages and models that have to     (1H2AAAAAAAAAD)

co-exist in complex engineering projects. don't you agree?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAE)

DeborahMacPherson: Interested in volunteering for the Large-Scale Domain Applications Track     (1H2AAAAAAAAAF)

RosarioUcedaSosa: I volunteer for the domain Smart Cities and E-Government, if anybody else is     (1H2AAAAAAAAAG)

interested (in any capacity)     (1H2AAAAAAAAAH)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: btw, a very relevant initiative in this respect is OMG's Semantic Information     (1H2AAAAAAAAAI)

Modeling for Federation:     (1H2AAAAAAAAAJ)

Amanda Vizedom: @BobS: In fact, I'd argue that one of the challenges of Large, especially but not     (1H2AAAAAAAAAL)

only federated, systems, is that all of these use cases have to be supported along with many others.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAM)

I wonder whether it would make sense to build a use case that is typical of such complex cases, and     (1H2AAAAAAAAAN)

a composite of individual cases we collectively have worked on (avoiding issues of publishing     (1H2AAAAAAAAAO)

descriptions of any particular organization's workings). Such a use case would be a really Big Use     (1H2AAAAAAAAAP)

Case, and get at so many of the different issues. It might make a good basis for a Grand Challenge?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAQ)

RosarioUcedaSosa: Yes, maybe a Smarter City is a concrete/accessible example?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAR)

Nicola Guarino: @Rosario: Do you have a specific smarter city project to consider as a case study?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAS)

Ali Hashemi: I'm back ... My other meeting was cancelled.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAT)

Todd Schneider: Giancarlo, my view is that an ontology is a/the model and we need to provide a way to     (1H2AAAAAAAAAU)

make these pervasive in the engineering process. Most current engineering tools and there embedded     (1H2AAAAAAAAAV)

and non-explicit semantics make them an impediment.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAW)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @ToddSchneider: Agree w.r.t. existing tools and even languages lacking explicit     (1H2AAAAAAAAAX)

Todd Schneider: How about government as a complex system?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAZ)

anonymous1 morphed into Brand Niemann     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAB)

Nicola Guarino: Speaking of media, let me remind everybody the twitter hashtag suggested by Amanda:     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAC)

  1. ontologysummit2012     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAD)

Maria Keet: @Giancarlo: there's an initiative for standardising dealing with multiple ontology     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAE)

languages in one system (ISO's wg on OntoIOp) and the Hets tool system     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAF)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @MariaKeet: thanks, I will take a look. However, I don't mean (only) multiple     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAG)

ontology languages. I mean multiple system engineering languages in general.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAH)

Simon Spero: @Todd: the life of the law is experience, not logic.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAI)

Frank Olken: Nicola, May I suggest the possibility of shortening the hash tag to #ontosummit2012 ? It     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAJ)

would save typing (and space).     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAK)

Amanda Vizedom: @Nicola @Frank: actually, I'm passing along the "official" hashtag, as seen on summit     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAL)

home page. I would have gone for something shorter, but I lost that argument a couple of summits     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAM)

ago. So, #ontologysummit2012 it is!     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAN)

Brand Niemann: I will write story (s) about this in AOL Government if you would like. See     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAO)

Bart Gajderowicz: @GiancarloGuizzardi: just to make the distinction between big-data and big-systems:     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAR)

in terms of big data, associating data with ontologies would help with semantic integration and     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAS)

interoperability.. if the meta-models are modelling DB record instances. This is not the case with     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAT)

meta-models of work-flows and processes.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAU)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @BartGajderowicz: Foundational Ontologies can play a fundamental role in     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAV)

language interoperability     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAW)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: for instance, typically in these scenarios, we will have multiple process     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAX)

modeling languages, data modeling languages, goal modeling languages, etc...     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAY)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: How do the modeling primitives in one process language relate to the primitives     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAZ)

in other languages? How do process primitives in different languages relate to goal modeling     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAA)

primitives in different goal languages etc...?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAB)

Bart Gajderowicz: @GiancarloGuizzardi: absolutely agree     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAC)

Todd Schneider: How about the creation of legislation as a complex system?     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAD)

Todd Schneider: Simon, great. My sister is lawyer and usually discounts work in this direction.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAF)

Simon Spero: @Todd Oy, my sister is a lawyer.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAG)

Ali Hashemi: @Todd, we're looking at that for our company as well. @Simon, law ontologies have come a     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAH)

loooong way from there :D     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAI)

Nicola Guarino: As an example of a BIG project (proposal) concerning big systems, have a look at     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAJ) (still a proposal, though, although ranked first in a preliminary selection     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAK)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: great discussion. I have to leave now but hope we can resume this in one of the     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAQ)

sessions. bye to all and thanks.     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAR)

Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:24am PST --     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAS)

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --     (1H2AAAAAAAAAAAT)

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