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Ontology Summit 2010: Panel Session-2 - "Training Content for Future Ontologists" - Thu 14-Jan-2010     (1)

Ontology Summit 2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future"     (1A)

  • Co-chairs: Professor MichaelGruninger (University of Toronto, Canada) & Dr. LeoObrst (MITRE, US)     (1A2)

  • Shared-screen support (VNC session) will be started 5 minutes before the call at:     (1A5E)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1A5E1)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1A5E2)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1A5E3)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1A5F)
    • (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"     (1A5F1)
    • You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based chat session by:     (1A5F2)
      • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1A5F3A)
    • (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1A5F4)
    • thanks to the folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1A5F5)
  • Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1A5J)

Attendees     (1B)

Resources     (1B5)

Theme: Ontology Summit 2010 - Creating the Ontologists of the Future     (1C)

This is our 5th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO and IAOA with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future" and was launched on 10-Dec-2009. Like previous years, this Ontology Summit will comprise of three months of virtual discourse, over our archived mailing lists, wiki, and virtual panel sessions (like this one), and will culminate in a 2-day face-to-face workshop/symposium to be held on Mon & Tue, 15 & 16-March-2010 at NIST (Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.)     (1C1)

  • Session Topic: What's in the Brain of an Ontologist -- The Strawman's Proposal     (1C2)
Increasingly, major national and international projects centered on ontology technology are being advanced by governments and by scientific and industrial organizations. This brings a growing need for ontology expertise and thus for new methods and institutions for the training of ontologists. The 2010 Ontology Summit will explore strategies to address this need in terms of curriculum, establishment of new career tracks, role of ontology support organizations and funding agencies, as well as training in the analysis and comparison of methodologies for designing, maintaining, implementing, testing and applying ontologies and associated tools and resources.     (1C3)
In this session, the co-chairs will present a strawman (see below) on what we would expect an ontologist to know. Our expert panel, made up of educators, trainers and employers of ontologists, as well as practicing professional ontologists, will then take turns to provide their input regarding the proposed "content" and share their insights on the topic. The session will then be opened to all participants for Q&A and discussion with the co-chairs and the panel.     (1C4)

The Strawman Proposal     (1C5)

Formal Foundations     (1C5A)

  • Mathematics and Computer Science: Set theory, category theory, formal languages, formal machines, data models     (1C5B)
  • Logic: Formal Logic, syntax and semantics     (1C5C)
  • Semantics: Formal Semantics, Philosophy of Language     (1C5D)
  • Ontology: Formal Ontology     (1C5E)

Knowledge Representation Languages     (1C5F)

Automated Reasoning     (1C5L)

Ontological Engineering     (1C5P)

Existing Ontologies - An ontologist should be familiar with widely used ontologies as well as ontologies that have been proposed or adopted as parts of international standards.     (1C5V)

Applications     (1C5AJ)

Agenda & Proceedings     (1D)

Ontology Summit 2010 Launch     (1D1)

  • Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call     (1D2)

Transcript of the online chat during the session     (1D3)

see raw transcript here.     (1D3A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1D3B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1D3C)

-- begin of chat session --     (1D3D)

Welcome to: Ontology Summit 2010: Panel Session-2 - "Training Content for the Future Ontologists" - Thu 14-Jan-2010     (1D3G)

o Professor Barry Smith (University at Buffalo, US)     (1D3L)

o Professor Christopher Menzel (Texas A&M University, US)     (1D3M)

o Dr. Pierre Grenon (KMi, Open University, UK)     (1D3N)

o Dr. Robert Stevens (University of Manchester, UK) (in absentia)     (1D3O)

o Dr. Aldo Gangemi (ISTC-CNR, Italy)     (1D3P)

anonymous1 morphed into Ed Dodds     (1D3T)

anonymous morphed into JessicaTurner     (1D3U)

anonymous morphed into Chuck Turnitsa     (1D3V)

anonymous1 morphed into Matthew West     (1D3W)

anonymous morphed into Bradley Shoebottom     (1D3X)

anonymous morphed into Elizabeth Florescu     (1D3Y)

Fabian Neuhaus: Peter I am on the phone     (1D3Z)

anonymous morphed into Tim Williams     (1D3AA)

anonymous morphed into Bobbin Teegarden     (1D3AB)

Michelle Raymond: I've called in twice. Very garbled. Are others having difficulty with Audio?     (1D3AC)

Fabian Neuhaus: Michelle, audio seems fine to me     (1D3AD)

anonymous1 morphed into Joanne Luciano     (1D3AE)

Lisa Zilinski morphed into Lisa Zilinski     (1D3AF)

Michelle Raymond: After Peter mutes us, I'll see if it improves and will then retry if neeeded.     (1D3AG)

Steve Ray: @Michelle - you are loud and clear on my end as well.     (1D3AH)

Michelle Raymond: Whew, third time's the charm. Just called back and all clear. Thanks.     (1D3AI)

anonymous morphed into Susan Matney     (1D3AJ)

Peter P. Yim: Michael is taking us through the Strawman Proposal at:     (1D3AK)

anonymous morphed into JulitaBermejoAlonso     (1D3AM)

Arturo Sanchez: @(Leo+Michael): first recommendation is to clarify if the goal is to create a Body of     (1D3AN)

Knowledge or Curricular Recommendations, or both. As mentioned before, the recommendations put     (1D3AO)

forward by ACM/IEEE-CS contain examples of how to put together both.     (1D3AP)

Arturo Sanchez: @(Leo+Michael): question ... it is not clear to me why Prolog is presented as a     (1D3AQ)

knowledge representation language (not a big deal) ... I'd just like to know the rationale ...     (1D3AR)

Ravi Sharma: Domain of Applications or Domain of Ontologies     (1D3AS)

Ravi Sharma: What is Enterprise ontology? is it a structure of organization or all cells of Zachman     (1D3AT)

framework?     (1D3AU)

Joanne Luciano: Ontology Evaluation?     (1D3AV)

Bradley Shoebottom: Yes, on computer science. I am a historian     (1D3AW)

Steve Ray: @Arturo, for the record could you provide a link to the ACM recommendations?     (1D3AX)

Ravi Sharma: Why not FGDC Metadata and also OGC (geolocation standards) related ontologies such as     (1D3AY)

Geophysical and geo databases, areas e.g. Dr. Rob Raskin's interests areas at JPL, MSFC etc.     (1D3AZ)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @(Michael+Leo): following Arturos proposal. One very interesting source of     (1D3AAA)

inspiration is the "Guide to the Software Engineering Body of Knowledge (SWEBOK)" -     (1D3AAB)

Arturo Sanchez: @Giancarlo: tante grazie!     (1D3AAD)

Matthew West: I like everything I see on this list, but I think at least one thing is missing, and     (1D3AAE)

that is something of philosophical ontology. What I think is needed is something of the basic     (1D3AAF)

ontological distinctions and commitments, e.g. between classes and particulars, between 3D and 4D     (1D3AAG)

individuals, modal logic and possible worlds. I don't think you need to be able to practice     (1D3AAH)

philosophical ontology, but you do need an appreciation.     (1D3AAI)

Matthew West: Sorry I have to leave now. I will try to come back later.     (1D3AAK)

Arturo Sanchez: @SteveRay: the ACM/IEEE-CS Recommendations can be seen at     (1D3AAL)

JulitaBermejoAlonso: Personally, I miss the use of ontologies for software engineering, as part of     (1D3AAN)

the Applications in the proposal     (1D3AAO)

Ravi Sharma: Giancarlo it takes us to IEEE Education homepage??     (1D3AAP)

Peter P. Yim: the person who just type his/her input into the "hand-queue space" ... you can take that     (1D3AAQ)

out by pressing the "hand" button again ... and please type your input into the field left of the     (1D3AAR)

send button (and then click "send")     (1D3AAS)

Todd Schneider: If we're also addressing the engineering of ontologies, then the strawman list is     (1D3AAT)

deficient w.r.t. engineering.     (1D3AAU)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @RaviSharma: its supposed to take us directly to the SWEBOK homepage (inside     (1D3AAV)

Joanne Luciano: I'm wondering if there it wouldn't be good (tagging onto Barry's points) a module on     (1D3AAY)

ontology communities of practice / logistics / ontology development in practice in the communigty.     (1D3AAZ)

Arturo Sanchez: @(Leo+Michael): within Ontological Engineering, I wonder how the actual incremental     (1D3AAAA)

and cooperative building of ontologies with 'domain experts' is reflected ...     (1D3AAAB)

Ravi Sharma: giancarlo: but it does not, can you provide the direct link     (1D3AAAC)

Arturo Sanchez: @RaviSharma: there is an extra period in the URL that does not belong ...     (1D3AAAG)

GaryBergCross: Would like to see more on the lifecycle methodology to build and maintain     (1D3AAAI)

ontologies.     (1D3AAAJ)

Ravi Sharma: Integration: So where are we with respect to ariving at integration standards, methods,     (1D3AAAK)

examples of ontology integration)     (1D3AAAL)

Arturo Sanchez: @(Leo+Michael+ChrisMenzel): maybe we need to include 'Interoperability', which     (1D3AAAM)

includes 'Integration'     (1D3AAAN)

Ed Dodds: fwiw - If folks use their wikiname name format here in the soaphub chat when Peter imports     (1D3AAAO)

the transcript into the wiki after the event, your name will take folks directly to your profile     (1D3AAAP)

when clicked     (1D3AAAQ)

Ravi Sharma: Integration: There are also iter-and- intra domain (application)integration     (1D3AAAR)

methodologies.     (1D3AAAS)

Todd Schneider: FOL is a knowledge representation language for Foundation of Mathematics.     (1D3AAAT)

Joanne Luciano: Agree with need for uses/application of ontolgies (integration) This will feed into     (1D3AAAU)

Evaluation later. Also, in applicaitons - how to determine if one can re-use an ontology for a new     (1D3AAAV)

appplication     (1D3AAAW)

Ravi Sharma: Another suggestion, are we aiming at further drill down in the content of the strawman?     (1D3AAAX)

This way we could create onto-education profiles and types of courses and contents as well as     (1D3AAAY)

Joanne Luciano: (I need to go to the CSHALS organizers meeting) Conference on Semantics in Healthcare     (1D3AAAAA)

Amanda Vizedom: @Michael: regarding how to incorporate feedback: I'm thinking that this discussion     (1D3AAAAC)

should be reflected in the Requirements Survey, in addition to today's discussion and the     (1D3AAAAD)

post-analysis you and Leo may be planning. Some of it already is, but I'm picking up some additional     (1D3AAAAE)

questions and choices to add. Not to the fine-grained level of specific languages, but to the     (1D3AAAAF)

question of what knowledge and skills ontologists need now.     (1D3AAAAG)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Regarding foundations, I believe that we should have represented in a curriculum     (1D3AAAAH)

issues such as Meta-Level Criteria for classifiying ontological choices such as: Revisionary vs.     (1D3AAAAI)

Descriptive, 3D vs. 4D. But also basic issues such as the epistemological foundations behind     (1D3AAAAJ)

ontological foundations (realism, moderate constructivism, radical constructivism), as well as basic     (1D3AAAAK)

notions such as Ontological Commitment     (1D3AAAAL)

Todd Schneider: What is the role of the ontologist, as being considered in these discussions, with     (1D3AAAAM)

respect to the development of systems (that would use their work product)?     (1D3AAAAN)

Rex Brooks: I'm wondering why, if we are focusing on how to develop the ontologists of the future, we     (1D3AAAAO)

are not outlining the values we would like them to have; such as focus on accuracy, ability to     (1D3AAAAP)

prioritize the development of ontologies for practical uses, etc? The point is what values do we     (1D3AAAAQ)

want these ontologists to reflect in their work once they learn the things outlined in the strawman?     (1D3AAAAR)

Ravi Sharma: Giancarlo: these would fall into categories such as reasoning, ontology models?     (1D3AAAAS)

GaryBergCross: Ontologies can help with data integration, but also better knowledge engineering so     (1D3AAAAT)

its connections to those methods should be part of the training and not just the knowledge     (1D3AAAAU)

representation part of KE.     (1D3AAAAV)

Amanda Vizedom: Meant to add, for all: this brings up the point that some of the questions and topics     (1D3AAAAW)

in the surveys and discussions may appear to overlap, but here we can see how they differ and     (1D3AAAAX)

complement each other. Michael and Leo have carefully scoped this strawman and discussion to view     (1D3AAAAY)

things through lens of training content, and the survey segment now out also views things through     (1D3AAAAZ)

this lens. The Requirements survey (coming soon!) will take a POV more situated in the ontology     (1D3AAAAAA)

development and use world, asking what training is needed from that perspective. Both POVs will     (1D3AAAAAB)

inform the full-scope collaboration of figuring out what training for ontologists should cover.     (1D3AAAAAC)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: @RaviSharma: the first are basic meta-level criteria for classifying (and     (1D3AAAAAD)

choosing) between foundational ontologies. The latter are general basic foundations on the field.     (1D3AAAAAE)

These are not orthogonal though     (1D3AAAAAF)

Amanda Vizedom: @Leo: music to an epistemologist's ears!     (1D3AAAAAG)

Todd Schneider: It may be necessary to come to a consensus as to the roles and responsibilities of     (1D3AAAAAH)

someone who undergoes the proposed training.     (1D3AAAAAI)

Ravi Sharma: Leo: I would suggest similar to what I did in the reply to Giancarlo a while ago on     (1D3AAAAAJ)

Epistemology, words that explain Axiology and if you permit from other philosophies (non-Greek)     (1D3AAAAAK)

notions of wisdom, knowledge, understanding, cognition-verification, etc.     (1D3AAAAAL)

Ed Dodds: Mind-mapping tools maybe...     (1D3AAAAAM)

Arturo Sanchez: Need to step out for a while ...     (1D3AAAAAN)

GaryBergCross: Yes, we should including methodfs across the ontology lifecycle - knowledge     (1D3AAAAAO)

elicitation, structuring and ontology development, validation etc, . The structuring procedure is     (1D3AAAAAP)

the one people usually focus on in ontological engineering.     (1D3AAAAAQ)

anonymous1 morphed into Jim Disbrow     (1D3AAAAAR)

Amanda Vizedom: @Todd: In case Michael and Leo don't have chance to catch up with chat comments     (1D3AAAAAS)

real-time: because that would be such an enormous task, and probably not one we could do while     (1D3AAAAAT)

respecting the multidisciplinary nature of the field, the idea here instead is to come up with a     (1D3AAAAAU)

fairly complete set of content-bins -- for example, things that might be turned into modules in     (1D3AAAAAV)

variuos ways for various purposes.     (1D3AAAAAW)

Ravi Sharma: Leo and mike: How do we balance and parse out the various portions of the Strawman?     (1D3AAAAAX)

For example into categories of future ontologists such as :     (1D3AAAAAY)

1. Philosophical fouindations of Ontology,     (1D3AAAAAZ)

2. Ontology languages.     (1D3AAAAAAA)

3. IT tools for ontology     (1D3AAAAAAB)

4. Domain specialist ontologist etc.     (1D3AAAAAAC)

Rex Brooks: @Ravi: Let's not leave out the application and societal results (benefits).     (1D3AAAAAAD)

Ravi Sharma: All: We need to discuss when we can reach ontology reasonability test? For example if I     (1D3AAAAAAE)

have deevlped triples and serach criteria that give me the short list better than taxonomies give,     (1D3AAAAAAF)

is that enough of a result or we have better pass or filtering ideas?     (1D3AAAAAAG)

Amanda Vizedom: @Fabian: Yes! I might suggest, correspondingly: Classic approaches to big modeling     (1D3AAAAAAH)

issues, especially competing approaches, from where they have grown, and the tradeoffs of each.     (1D3AAAAAAI)

Michelle Raymond: @ Rex and Amanda: The skills developed though addressing the training content must     (1D3AAAAAAJ)

produce both 1)capabilities of an ontologist (model generation, understanding of semantic and     (1D3AAAAAAK)

syntactic choices on ontology development, mapping, ...) and 2) characteristics of an ontologist     (1D3AAAAAAL)

(produces consistent information structures, keys in on relevant existing ontologies for reuse or     (1D3AAAAAAM)

extension, results both human and machine readable...).     (1D3AAAAAAN)

Ravi Sharma: Rex: those were in 4.? however left out Societal results that will probably provide new     (1D3AAAAAAO)

ways of collective knowledge, analyses etc. yes important.     (1D3AAAAAAP)

Rex Brooks: @ Ravi: That's the what I was reaching for with my comment on the values we want to     (1D3AAAAAAQ)

develop in our future ontologists.     (1D3AAAAAAR)

Michael Uschold: On the topic of uses or applications of ontologies, see this paper:     (1D3AAAAAAS)

Rex Brooks: Thanks Michael Uschold, I just downloaded the paper.     (1D3AAAAAAU)

Fabian Neuhaus: Good point by Giancarlo: ontology life cycle management should be added to the list     (1D3AAAAAAV)

Todd Schneider: Amanda, having a complete list of topics and how they relate is essential, but the     (1D3AAAAAAW)

purpose also needs to be explicated.     (1D3AAAAAAX)

Michael Uschold: In addition to epistomology, noted by Leo, a carriculum should also include content     (1D3AAAAAAY)

on semiotics, distinguishing between types, tokens and meanings.     (1D3AAAAAAZ)

Pierre Grenon: @Fabian: the initial curriculum should reflect ontology life cycle     (1D3AAAAAAAA)

Ravi Sharma: I suggest adding UML (ODM) to the languages and Financial Services to the Applications     (1D3AAAAAAAB)

list in the Strawman     (1D3AAAAAAAC)

Ravi Sharma: Great link Michael it also supports my sugestion on languages: Ontology representation     (1D3AAAAAAAD)

languages- (e.g., UML, Express, Ontolingua, XML) Knowledge interchange languages: (e.g., KIF,     (1D3AAAAAAAE)

PIF[7], CDIF) Translation tools: (e.g., Ontolingua translators, CDIFtools, StepTools, ... (lots!))     (1D3AAAAAAAF)

Distributed Objects: (e.g., CORBA, COM)     (1D3AAAAAAAG)

Ed Dodds: What about developing some social media mechanism which nudges institutional shareholders     (1D3AAAAAAAI)

to ask (during quarterly analysts concalls) if C-Suites actually know what an ontology is and     (1D3AAAAAAAJ)

whether they use them in their enterprise?     (1D3AAAAAAAK)

JulitaBermejoAlonso: I suppose all you already know a book on Ontological Engineering that reviews     (1D3AAAAAAAL)

most of the topics in the Proposal. A good starting point... at least for me from scratch     (1D3AAAAAAAM)

Amanda Vizedom: On earlier point regarding evaluation: complementary but slightly different-angled     (1D3AAAAAAAN)

point: Content is thin here, but it is still worth covering: how to develop operational ontology     (1D3AAAAAAAO)

tests. That is, taking Fabian's point about staring at axioms and not understanding, testing and     (1D3AAAAAAAP)

evaluation are not only ontology-internal matters. Where ontology is developed as part of a system     (1D3AAAAAAAQ)

(including not only the technology, but also the processes to be supported and the people involved     (1D3AAAAAAAR)

in those processes), the effects of ontology modeling choices on the function of the system should     (1D3AAAAAAAS)

be tested. This area is underdeveloped, but *thinking* about it can nevertheless be taught, along     (1D3AAAAAAAT)

with examples where available.     (1D3AAAAAAAU)

Ravi Sharma: Michael Uschold this could be required reading or reference as it deals with integration:     (1D3AAAAAAAV)

and many other areas Figure 4: Data Access via Shared Ontology     (1D3AAAAAAAW)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Another point regarding "domains of applications" point I see missing     (1D3AAAAAAAX)

there is the ontological Analysis, (Re)design and integration of Modeling Languages and Reference     (1D3AAAAAAAY)

Models (e.g., ISO standards). This has been one of the first application areas of (philosophical)     (1D3AAAAAAAZ)

ontology in computer science and there is still a very active community on the use of ontological     (1D3AAAAAAAAA)

theories as foundations for conceptual modeling languages and methods     (1D3AAAAAAAAB)

Amanda Vizedom: @Todd: Can you say more about what you mean? I am thinking that the purpose would be     (1D3AAAAAAAAC)

more specific to a particular program or curriculum, whereas this would be more raw material for     (1D3AAAAAAAAD)

forming such a thing to serve a purpose. Is that different from what you mean by "purpose?"     (1D3AAAAAAAAE)

anonymous1 morphed into Aldo Gangemi     (1D3AAAAAAAAF)

Aldo Gangemi: I'm in, still on time for contrib?     (1D3AAAAAAAAG)

Peter P. Yim: Community input is solicited through:     (1D3AAAAAAAAH)

(1) participation in virtual panel sessions like this,     (1D3AAAAAAAAI)

(2) through the [ontology-summit] mailing list,     (1D3AAAAAAAAJ)

(3) through the wiki pages marked "Community Input", and     (1D3AAAAAAAAK)

(4) by responding to the surveys that are coming out     (1D3AAAAAAAAL)

... see details in the Resources section on today's session page     (1D3AAAAAAAAM)

Ravi Sharma: Michael:when did you publish this valuable paper?     (1D3AAAAAAAAP)

Amanda Vizedom: Thanks for paper, Michael, very helpful!     (1D3AAAAAAAAQ)

GaryBergCross: The analogy to SW engineering also provides the idea of a difference between a     (1D3AAAAAAAAR)

programming course oten using a particular language and a more general SW Engineering course where     (1D3AAAAAAAAS)

one learns more abstract concepts. The same very rough course distinction may apply here.     (1D3AAAAAAAAT)

Ravi Sharma: Amanda -I would like to continue to echo the same.     (1D3AAAAAAAAU)

Todd Schneider: Amanda, this goes back to a request I made of Barry, What's an ontology for training     (1D3AAAAAAAAV)

ontologists? The inclusion of a subject or module should include a justification, and in that     (1D3AAAAAAAAW)

justification a purpose, goal or intent of including the module I would expect to be embedded.     (1D3AAAAAAAAX)

1. (not relevant here)     (1D3AAAAAAAAZ)

2. The ontology is expressed in a formal language with a well-defined syntax.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAA)

3. The authors of the ontology provide the required metadata.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAB)

4. The ontology has a clearly specified and clearly delineated scope.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAC)

5. Successive versions of an ontology are clearly identified.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAD)

6. The ontology is adequately labeled.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAE)

Michelle Raymond: My previous cut-paste comments are from Ontology Summit 2008 and identify     (1D3AAAAAAAAAF)

characteristics of an ontology. This can lead us to what must ontologist training include.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAG)

Ravi Sharma: Leo: one of the topics we discussed was that for OOR? similarly Staging and E-Commerce     (1D3AAAAAAAAAH)

etc. Does this get employed in Enterprise ontologies?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAI)

GaryBergCross: A tutorial on ONTOLOGICAL ENGINEERING by Asunci��n G��mez-P��rez had these topics:     (1D3AAAAAAAAAJ)

Reuse and Sharing     (1D3AAAAAAAAAK)

Problems in Building KBS from Scratch     (1D3AAAAAAAAAL)

Problems when you reuse/share knowledge in KBS     (1D3AAAAAAAAAM)

The Knowledge Sharing Initiative     (1D3AAAAAAAAAN)

Definitions of Ontologies     (1D3AAAAAAAAAO)

Ontological Commitments     (1D3AAAAAAAAAP)

Components of an Ontology     (1D3AAAAAAAAAQ)

Types of Ontologies     (1D3AAAAAAAAAR)

Libraries of Ontologies     (1D3AAAAAAAAAS)

What does an explicit ontology look like?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAT)

Principles for the Design of Ontologies     (1D3AAAAAAAAAU)

Ontologies versus knowledge bases     (1D3AAAAAAAAAV)

Uses of Ontologies     (1D3AAAAAAAAAW)

Fabian Neuhaus: I would suggest to restrict the languages to languages with a model theoretic     (1D3AAAAAAAAAY)

Michael Uschold: How to include content on ontology applications? Have a module that examines a small     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAA)

number of diverse case studies. For each, consider the original competency questions for the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAB)

ontology, what services the ontology provides, where it fits into the architecture of the production     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAC)

software, how the ontology evolved over time, etc. This is a big picture view. Another way to     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAD)

include content on ontolgoy uses, is to take a larger number of case studies and analyze the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAE)

different benefits that the ontology supported.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAF)

Ravi Sharma: Gary: Real good List certainly candidate for courseware and also specialization.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAG)

Rex Brooks: Do we want to include the likes of SPARQL, when thinking about practical uses. We're     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAH)

planning to use it in specifying and querying emergency management policies for distribution of     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAI)

messages as well as within various SOAs.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAJ)

Amanda Vizedom: @Rex: Good question, especially as many people are now using SPARQL and SPIN to work     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAK)

around limitations in OWL.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAL)

Ravi Sharma: Leo: Model theoretic Semantics is another area.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAM)

Amanda Vizedom: Under Ontology Lifecycle > Design, and in tune with Barry's point about considering     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAN)

the humans involved: Existing training sometimes includes the formal aspects of requirements     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAO)

analysis, but I've seen too many "trained" ontologists with no idea how to gather requirements from     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAP)

human users or for an application context that includes human users. [I mean this separately from     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAQ)

the topic of knowledge elicitation techniques and skill, though there is a corresponding lack of     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAR)

training there).     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAS)

Ravi Sharma: MOF and RDF are two meta-concepts that map into the laguage as well as interoperability     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAT)

considerations?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAU)

Ravi Sharma: Aldo: I agree with your expressions.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAW)

[ ppy comment: believe Ravi was referring to Todd's comment and not Aldo ]     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAX)

Ravi Sharma: We definitely could be helped if we had a decision tree that is ontologydriven     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAY)

(reasoning based on interest of the learner-student)?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAZ)

Fabian Neuhaus: Suggested answer to Todd's question: after the training the person should be able to     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAA)

deploy a high-quality ontology (in cooperation with domain experts)     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAB)

Aldo Gangemi: i still cannot unmute, maybe skype is an issue?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAE)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Aldo: probably it wont work on skype     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAF)

Aldo Gangemi: i cannot digit the star on skype     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAG)

Michael Uschold: Aldo: i had this problem, get a new version of skype, it handles this.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAH)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Aldo: I had the same problem in the past     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAI)

Rex Brooks: When using Skype you may need to try to get the numberpad in the Skype display, you can     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAJ)

use your cursor to press *3.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAK)

Aldo Gangemi: i am using the cursor, but skype does not do anything after a * pressing     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAL)

Aldo Gangemi: and i have a quite recent version of skype, maybe the mac version has issues     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAM)

Rex Brooks: That was my best suggestion, sorry. If the computer numberpad or numbers don't work.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAN)

Aldo Gangemi: ok i'll do the chat, better than nothing     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAO)

Aldo Gangemi: the strawman is mostly irrelevant for what we want to know about the mind of an     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAQ)

Pierre Grenon: Aldo, it's about the brain     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAS)

Ravi Sharma: Aldo: mind is a whole new area and yes it does relate to cognition at very deep     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAT)

theoretical and philosophy-logic levels.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAU)

Peter P. Yim: @MichaelGruninger ... I'll unmute ALL for Aldo     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAV)

Rex Brooks: @Aldo; this is in line with my earlier comments on values. I think we need an ontology of     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAW)

values which could be studied by the future ontologist early on as a way to navigate the bewildering     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAX)

mass of categories in the strawman.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAY)

Aldo Gangemi: yes, that's what i wanted to say     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAZ)

Matthew West: I'm afraid I need to leave now. Good discussion.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAA)

GaryBergCross: Developing an ontology of the ontology topic is too hard. Let's just build a taxonomy     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAC)

Michelle Raymond: @Gary, I think we're starting with just a List.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAE)

Michelle Raymond: Hierarchy is what is forthcoming     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAF)

JulitaBermejoAlonso: @Todd: I had gone through a on-my-own training on most of the topics in the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAG)

proposal. As a result, an awful lot of information and background that had to be filtered and traded     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAH)

off to accommodate the domain ontology I wanted to develop. Most of the topics suggested in the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAI)

proposal provided the means. Not the actual expertise to develop the ontology.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAJ)

Amanda Vizedom: I like that suggestion very much.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAK)

GaryBergCross: A curriculum view seems approapriate to organize "Training Content for the Future     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAL)

Ontologists" but it doesn't say what courses we would divide the content into and how to sequence     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAM)

Michelle Raymond: Crossing Automated Reasoning, Ontological Engineering, KR Languages, and Existing Ontologies --     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAO)

Ontology technology is critical in development of a situation understanding system     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAQ)

for interactive real-time reporting using open standards.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAR)

Providing key data for situation understanding requires: gathering relevant information,     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAS)

formatting information for exchange, transferring information to users/systems,     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAT)

and presenting information to users.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAU)

Continued situation awareness requires: data updates, sharing information, associating new data inputs.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAV)

For example, Effective emergency response requires organized notification and up to the minute situation     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAW)

awareness throughout the emergency. An added challenge is consistent presentation of building     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAX)

geometry and semantic information using accessible, broadly adopted, easy to understand, open     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAY)

formats that are accurate and maintainable over time.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAZ)

- DeborahMacPherson, Michelle Raymond: Ontology training should address meeting the needs of this use case, (and certainly many others.)     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I am afraid I have to leave now. Thanks for the great discussion.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAB)

Steve Ray: I also must leave early. Thanks.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAE)

Ravi Sharma: Amanda: I would be happy to work with you for such a survey although we can also work     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAG)

Ravi Sharma: Amanda: I see the difference between your and arturo's areas.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAI)

Amanda Vizedom: @Rex: I'd agree that many (especially OWL-focused) newer ontologists focus too much     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAJ)

on classes of objects and not enough of relationships (not so true of those who've worked in more     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAK)

expressive languages, but that's not the majority). However, I'd argue that seeing this in terms of     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAL)

verbs and nouns leads to more problems, as it conflates the linguistic objects and the conceptual     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAM)

objects. IMHO, separating those is *essential* to having an ontology that can support uses / users     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAN)

across languages. In fact, it's essential even to reusability across community-specific dialects.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAO)

Ravi Sharma: next advance will be strengths of relationships and some relevance ranking for the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAP)

GaryBergCross: ON the relation to language DOLCE aims at "capturing the ontological stands that     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAR)

shape natural language and human cognition." They are clear on the assumption/commitent that the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAS)

surface structure of "natural language and the so-called commonsense have ontological relevance. As     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAT)

a consequence, the categories refer to cognitive artifacts more or less depending on human     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAU)

perception, cultural imprints and social conventions."     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAV)

Pierre Grenon: which is also why teaching ontology should not start with OWL or worse Protege..     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAY)

Pierre Grenon: @amanda: and only those with security clearance ought to get taught linguistics     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Rex Brooks: @Amanda: I don't disagree.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAB)

Michelle Raymond: @Pierre: agreed! That is certification of a tool or language NOT knowledge of     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAC)

Aldo Gangemi: i start my tutorials by teaching linguistics and semiotics it works     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAE)

Peter P. Yim: thank you all ... great session ... bye     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAG)

Peter P. Yim: - conference call session ended 12:26pm PST -     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH)

Amanda Vizedom: I take Gary's point about respecting the cognitive significance of language. I think,     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAI)

though, that these are not in conflict if the support for concept-to-linguistic object (multiple)     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAJ)

mapping is rich enough.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAK)

GaryBergCross: Aldo Thanks for the detail on how you start the course. can you provide an Outline?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAM)

Pierre Grenon: @aldo: you mean you manage to teach them linguistics     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAN)

Pierre Grenon: @amanda: linguistics ought to be the ontology of language     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAO)

Joanne Luciano: I've had to be on another call and didn't realize this was still going on.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAP)

GaryBergCross: There's a very practical side to some "linguistic analysis" that ilustrates     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAQ)

underlying concepts we have about rality. Even Object-oreirnted analysis used these.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAR)

Joanne Luciano: Has there been any discussion of an 'agile' or incremental approach to teaching     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAS)

ontology engineering?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAT)

Pierre Grenon: not enough about the incremental     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAU)

Ed Dodds: Thanks all! The Best Buy reference was a helpful commercial case study     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAV)

GaryBergCross: Joanne, do you mean the use of an incremental method to build ontologies?     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAW)

Joanne Luciano: And along those lines, in some efforts I've been involved in, we've been using     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAY)

minimal information.... to define the first set of terms to implement so that the ontology can be     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAZ)

used in short order     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

GaryBergCross: Well I agree with importance of incremental scoping and focused improvments. But we     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB)

left such details out along with top-down versus bottom up approaches and much more on the     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC)

Joanne Luciano: I would like to see a ciriculum that covers theory and practice - and practice in     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAE)

more than one setting     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAF)

GaryBergCross: I can imagine an intro course that combines these and then advancd courses for each.     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG)

-- end of chat session --     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI)

  • Please mark your calendars - next session (same time on a Thursday): Thu 2010.02.04 - Ontology Summit 2010 virtual panel session-3: "Requirements" Track panel session - developing agenda will be at: ConferenceCall_2010_02_04     (1D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK)

An Open Invitation     (1E)

If you do find this initiative interesting or useful, we cordially invite you to join us in the "Ontology Summit 2010" virtual discourse that will be taking place in the next 3 months or so, and to the face-to-face workshop that will be held on 15 & 16-March-2010 as part of the NIST Interoperability Week in Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.     (1E1)

  • Join us at some of the upcoming virtual panel discussion (on the Ontolog Forum) on this year's summit topics. Watch for the announcements!     (1E3)
  • Registration for the face-to-face workshop (Mon & Tue 2009.03.15 & 16) will be announced later. Please be on the look out for it!     (1E4)

Session ended 2010.01.14-12:26 pm PST     (1E5)

Audio Recording of this Session     (1F)

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