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Workshop Co-chair: Mr. Edward Barkmeyer (NIST), Dr. Frank Olken (NSF) & Mr. Howard Mason (BAE, ISO)
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This is a face-to-face workshop for the UoM_Ontology_Standard working group. The session will be focused on getting the work, up to this point, into a draft standard. Other members of the community interested in tracking the progress of this work are welcome to join as observers. Remote participation is supported as well.
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- Location: (1A3)
National Science Foundation,
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Room 1235 (Director's Conference Room),
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4201 Wilson Blvd.,
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Arlington, VA
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- Our panel's prepared slides can be accessed by clicking on the [ slides ] links against each agenda items below (1A11B)
- Date: Friday, 30-October-2009 (1A12A)
- Start Time: 8:30am EDT / 5:30am PDT / 1:30pm CEST / 12:30pm BST / 12:30 UTC (1A12B)
- Discussions and Q & A: (1A12E)
- Anyone who wants to speak should raise their hands and/or be recognized by the session chair first, before doing so. (1A12E1)
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- This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard/Workshop_2009_10_30 (1A12F)
- Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy. (1A12G)
- Motivation and market for this work (1B3A)
- rules for conducting the meeting (if there are many attendees), (1B3B)
- call for agenda items, adoption of agenda (1B3C)
- Proposed work plan going forward (preview here ... to be adopted towards end of session) - Joel Bender / Peter P. Yim ... [ slides ] from 2009.10.22 (1B3D)
Accomplishments-to-date:
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- proposed is OWL (OWL2 DL), CLIF (owl-ized), and UML class diagrams for presentation/discussion (1B6A)
- 10:00 Break (1B8)
- 10:15 Scope issues (1B10)
- 12:00-1:00pm EDT - lunch (1B11)
Content Issues:
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- 2:45 break (1B16)
Workplan & Next Steps:
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- 3:00 next steps (1B18)
- 3:30 adjournment (1B19)
===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session=== (lightly edited for clarity)
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Workshop Co-chair: Mr. Edward Barkmeyer (NIST), Dr. Frank Olken (NSF) & Mr. Howard Mason (BAE, ISO)
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anonymous morphed into Silvia Gaio
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anonymous morphed into Bo Vargas (Raytheon)
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project.
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definitions in differents systems of units. Worse, ton has several
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different possible dimensionalities: ton as unit of mass, ton as unit of
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power (for refrigeration), and ton as unit of energy (as in megatons of
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yield for nuclear weapons.
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vocabulary for understanding units of measurements. 9:09 AM
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recommendation for use in cross border trade. 9:11 am
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measurement units, in OWL DL based on .... by Unidata. It is in OWL DL.
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09:13:00 AM
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both ISO 31 and IEC 60027. Currently 8 parts are released as
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International Standard
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consortium. Developed by Gunther Schadow (not present).
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not quantities. 9:14 am
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version of the QUDV (Quantities, Units, Dimensions and Values) model for
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anonymous morphed into Nicola Guarino
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intended to markup units for xml / html documents. It is an XML schema,
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not an ontology.
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are on the line. New version is coming soon. Covers units and
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dimensions. 9:17 am
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OMG wiki site.
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QUDT.
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Nicola Guarino: Is the shared screen working?
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working. You need to download slides directly from the web page,
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documents.
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009_10_30#nid22GX
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Parsia and Michael Smith, presented at OWLED 2008.
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d04) and possibly something VinayChaudri of SRI may be sending us
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and Hans-Peter de Koning has agreed to support us on this effort, our
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rather than implementation.
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DL?) also.
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DL.
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world.
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informative versions available in OWL and UML, right?
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for implementors.
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identify yourself. Click on settings button to do this. .....9:40 am
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expressive.
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required to implement in CLIF.
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anonymous morphed into Mark Rivas
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publish informative version in OWL 2 DL.
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publication?
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syntax checkers?
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developers.
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language they know.
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regarding development environments.
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(OCL) in combination with UML class diagrams to express consistency and
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derivation rules such as dimensional analysis. The greater
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expressibility of Common Logic could be important to express such
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internal constraints.
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thought. When a document is presented in more than one language it
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multiplies the amount of work that is needed to keep everything
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consistent, and there is a danger that some constraint cannot be
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represented in one or more of the languages. This is pretty obvious when
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stated, but isn't always followed through very well depending on how
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well the committee participants cooperate. Just a note of my personal
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anxiety as the process continues.
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-10:21:00
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automated way of generating alternative informative specifications,
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avoiding dependence on human transformations.
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baldly publishing several 'versions' would not do the job.
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Ontology. see his slides linked from the meeeting agenda.
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has not quantities. NIST believes we need quantities.
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Views & Transformations, QVT, which provides support for specifying
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mappings of an ontology to/from different representations in, e.g., UML,
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OWL, RDF, etc... This approach is what the Ontology Definition Metamodel
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(ODM) uses to specify the mappings amongst UML, OWL, RDFS and Topic
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Maps.
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quantities.
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call.
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reference frames for coordinates, etc.
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measurements, units. See David Leal's
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scope to scalar quantities.
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between work and torque.
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allows tensor measurements.
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later.
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non-trivial.
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extend to vectors and tensors eventually. We should start with scalars,
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but not preclude vectors and tensors.
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not explicate them further.
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vector; rank 2 is matrix; rank > 2 is higher order tensor
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ontology defines things.
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wrong label, or build a derived work, that uses the wrong class? What is
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the consequence of picking the wrong one?
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scope matters. I want to return to what the scope of the ontology.
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vectors, ... tensors.
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physical object.
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these are two different particular quantities.
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if both sticks are 30 cm. Do we need notion of particular quantities.
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particular quantities.
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dimension.
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strictly, e.g., "mass-of". Two different protons cannot have the same
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mass. Are we talking
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need to capture the distinction between scalar, vector, tensor is
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dependent on how detailed we want
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will need some notion of particular quantities.
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particular measurements (with errors uncertainties).
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ontologize. Particular quantities are useless in the ontology.
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quantities.
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quantity kinds (dimensionality).
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particular quantities.
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quantity or a unit will refer to the ISO/IEC 80000 normative definition
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reference to a particular measurement.
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connect to external standards for quantities.
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about particular quantities.
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has types.
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measurement.
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question could be stated as follows:
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the thing being measured.
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dimension.
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height, depth, width, ....
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system of units ....
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in the sense that a Person is a general concept. 2) Temperature of
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Nicola Guarino is a specialization of the property: Temperature of a
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of the property: Temperature of a Person. 4) We can then further
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specialize the property to narrow the context in which we want to talk
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about such quantities as properties of things in some context. 5) A
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measurement model (In the sense of VIM) can impose additional
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constraints on the context in which we can say that a quantity property
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is measurable and then talk about a measurement as another kind of
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property about a property quantity which is a property of something.
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base unit ....
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and quantity role (length vs. height, width, ...)
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as dimension - Dimension of a (kind of) quantity is the product of
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powers of base quantities that you have selected for your system of
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quantities
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dimension.
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dimension"
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notion, as it has no way to be cashed out in any theories of quantity
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relations. The temperature of Nicola (at a time, as determined by an act
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of measurement) is not a specialization of temperature, it is a *value*
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of temperature. It is not a property at all, but an actual temperature.
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The property *temperature of person* is formally a set of pairs <x
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y>where x is a person and y is a temperature. We have to allow
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temperatures in this ('abstract') sense to *exist*, and when we do, they
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suffice to say all that we want to say.
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property is not tied to a particular context. We can specialize this
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tensor, e.g., to refer to the "Temperature of Nicola on Oct. 30, 2009"
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which isn't a measurement either.
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anonymous morphed into NSF-venue
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mean quantity kind. Dimension in engineering is a role (e.g., height,
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width).
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substantive phase of the project.
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standard termionologies, e.g., VIM.
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about. HOwever, *temperature of nicola* is certainly not a tensor in
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CLIF, OWL or any ontology formalism I know of.
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http://books.google.com/books?id=pIlCAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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on systems of measure)
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ontology of VIM and nothing else. VIM has the benefit of having been
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thoroughly vetted and reviewed in the scientific community for,
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literally, hundreds of years.
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(Ch. I of VIM). VIM was written by physicists not engineer.
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ambiguous or conflicting about the notion of quantity?
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of units, whether it is a subset of SI, a superset, overlaps with SI or
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is completely different.
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model any other systems of measurement within this ontology.
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own system of quantities; there is no constraint that says that one has
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to use all of ISQ.
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ISO/IEC 80000)
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systems if folks need them. Also possibly use other systems to
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illustrate concepts from ontology.
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please do not put your phone on hold
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paying music. Please do not do this.
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yet systems of units).
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quantities.
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dimension and then charge = current * time. Other systems use charge as
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base dimension, and current = charge / time.
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this chat board, please
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quantities than SI?
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computation over base quantities? Does anyone disagree?
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context of this discussion. We already covered the problems of other
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systems of units/quantities and the support for dimensional analysis,
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coherence and derivation.
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operators.
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derived units.
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kinds and dimenisonality.
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determined.
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specifies how to automatically derive the quantity dimension for any
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(kind of) quantity that is defined within a system of quantities. The
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system of quantities defines its base quantities. One individual system
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of quantities can represent the ISQ (International System of
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Quantities).
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base units? do we add joules? what about metric prefixes? do we add all
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of these derived units? on do we rely on a library of derived units?
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units, metric prefixes?
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ontology.
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in a base ontology, then create a second ISQ/SI ontology the imports the
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base ontology and adds the most important ISQ/SI quantities and units
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that libraries will become published extensions? What about UCUM? But
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they are not ontologies ....
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maintenance authority?
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likely not in Common Logic.
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analysis in QUDV - including derivation of derived units and quantities.
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need to support unit conversion.
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time) Absolute scales (mass, temperature)?
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is essential for many engineering applications.
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and situate SI within this framework?
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resistance and conductance ...
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again, please
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Nicola Guarino: Albert Tarantola: Elements for Physics: Quantities,
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Qualities, and Intrinsic Theories
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units alone, as there could be different ways of measuring conductance
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and also resistance and it need not always add to unity as there are
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errors in measurements and different micro processes are invloves.
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sound intensity in decibels.
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operators needed.
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between the different measurement systems.
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much of "scales" do we want to tackle. I think that focusing first on
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the notions of scales for which we can provide value-added reasoning
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support (e.g., Hans-Peter mentioned automated conversion) is a good way
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to force ourselves to limit the scope to what we can reason about.
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modelling within the ontology.
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measurements? in first draft?
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matter but affects accuracy of measurement whether linear, log, and
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often with limits including singularities.
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measurements.
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other standards.
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be useful. Perhaps we can partially specify this.
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values ...
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model tolerances? This has significant commercial significance.
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Nicola Guarino: I have to go now, bybye everybody. Nice discussion!
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and specification tolerance (descriptive, vs. prescriptive).
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separable issues.
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problematic for commerce.
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release.
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or tolerance within first version.
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Yes? Unclear, how?
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probability is new territory for formalization in ontology languages, so
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we risk being too ambitious.
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restricting scope of existential quantities.
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with each other?
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metatheories. This is risky within a standard.
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names with contexts in common logic.
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multiple meanings for names within microtheories.
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extensions to this standard? Yes !!!
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of iso 80000 ?
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ISO/IEC 80000 here:
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English units as example for how to do extensions.
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how, implications for intellectual property.
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- i.e., 45 minutes.
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morning?
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Development Organization.
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xml, xhtml.
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W3C).
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once the have a final OASIS Standard product.
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that'll be easier to evaluate once underway. In any case, OASIS makes
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those submissions.
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clutches of the W3C.
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standardization process.
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draft documents will be available on the TRAC server ...
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the OASIS server (even the working documents).
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development.
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tools issues.
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similar but different standards.
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processes
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tools for hosting functions we don't carry out internally.
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for coordination of OMG and OASIS work.
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approval of TC use of outside resources. And, as it happens, a CMS
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expert. Mary.mcrae [at] oasis-open.org
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and OASIS work.
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permissive license.
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to/from UML, Owl.
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this ontology standard.
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standards group.
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Measure Ontology Standard
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choked!
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hear on the conference call)
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sensitive.
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your rights to content of standard.
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be clear about quantity kind.
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concerned that it might be constraining. I am glad to see it omitted
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here.
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publication?
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Ontology Standard (QUOMOS)
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the standard development.
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approval of primary OASIS members.
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standard.
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meeting. Mostly teleconference.
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teleconference.
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latest ISO/IEC 80000 standard for the purpose of this development (to
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Mike Smith of ISO) with the understanding that this will be put into a
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password protected shared file workspace for this working group
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ISO 80000 for purposes of the ontology std development.
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of Ontolog Forum) to discuss QUOMOS project.
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on Nov. 19, 2009. Thursday - see developing session details
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sponsoring persons, organizations within OASIS by Nov. 16, 2009.
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Frank Olken: We now need a convenor for the mid-January 2010 - First OASIS QUOMOS TC meeting.
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[ subsequent post: 14-Jan-2010 is a Thursday, and could be a candidate date
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for that meeting. -PeterYim ]
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DL, UML pictures, explanatory English text.
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units on measurement uncertainty, tolerances.
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member LBNL.
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xxx modules later.
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units, Derived Units, ... modules
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scales, SI base units, Derived Units, Dimensions, and Extension
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mechanism.
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they regarded as separate concepts or as classification of quantities?
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scope (and more) in a message at:
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Something went wrong with starting time interpretation here...
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conversation obliterating the conference)
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phone.
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Measure Ontology Standard (QUOMOS). There was consensus on this.
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and units? There is so much more. Doesn't the term "unit" cover what can
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be called "the domain of units"?
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general indication.
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status. Peter to put request on the uom mailing list ... we don't want
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to lose anyone!
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chat transcript will be posted tomorrow.
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-- session ended: 2009.10.30 - 15:30 EDT --
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- Further Questions & Follow-up: - please post them to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv (1C688)
- if you are already subscribed, post to <uom-ontology-std [at] ontolog.cim3.net> (1C688A)
- (if you are not yet subscribed) you may subscribe yourself to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv listserv, by sending a blank email to <uom-ontology-std-join [at] ontolog.cim3.net> from your subscribing email address, and then follow the instructions you receive back from the mailing list system. (1C688B)
- Mark your calendars and come join us at the next virtual session for this working group - UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_11_19 (1C689)
- we shall look forward to those who are interested to support this effort to consider joining us at the developing OASIS QUOMOS TC - watch out for the announcement of its formation from both OASIS and ONTOLOG (1C690)
- To download the recorded segments of the workshop, click on the respective audio link under the archives section (1D1)
- the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer. (1D1B)
- Conference Date and Time: 30-Oct-2009 8:50am~3:30pm EDT (1D2)
- Total Duration of Recordings: 5 Hour 29 Minutes - (i) 1:06:07 ; (ii) 2:07:23 ; (iii) 2:15:15 (1D3)
- Total Recording File Size: 37.6 MB (in mp3 format) - (i) 7.6; (ii) 15.0; (iii) 15.0 MB (1D4)
- suggestions: (1D5)
- its best that you listen to the session while having the respective slide presentations (when available) opened on your desktop in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker. (1D5A)
- ... *my apologies for the "echos" in quite a portion of the audio recording ... I was away from my normal recording equipment and settings, and evidently, still has issues doing it right while on the road. Anyhow, I am glad the audio archive is still quite intelligible! =ppy/2009.11.01 (1D6)
- UoM Working Group Work-in-progress: (1E1)
- UoM virtual workshop preview session 2009.10.22 - UoM_Ontology_Standard/ConferenceCall_2009_10_22 (1E4)
- FrankOlken's talk during the OntologySummit2009_Symposium on "Quantities and Units of Measure" as a candidate ontology-based standard we can work on (1E5B)
- Earlier discussion: (1E6)
For the records ...
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- 3. Download presentations for each speaker by clicking on the link associated with each agenda item (1F3)
- Nicola Guarino (1G2C)
- Silvia Gaio (University of Padua, Italy) (observer) (1G2F)
- Bogart Vargas (Raytheon) (observer) (1G2H)
- Mark Rivas (consultant working with BTA, UK) (observer) (1G2I)
