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IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG: Inaugural Meeting - Mon 2013-11-25     (1)

Convener: Dr. LeoObrst (IAOA-EC; MITRE) ... intro slides     (1A)

Description:     (1B)

The purpose of this session is to begin to form a Semantic Web Applied Ontology Special Interest Group (SIG) in the International Association for Ontology and its Applications (IAOA): This SIG aims to fill the gap between the Semantic Web community and the IAOA community.     (1C)

Often the two communities seem to think they have nothing in common, whereas some of us believe they share many common goals, common technologies, and a common interest in well-engineered applied ontologies. Many of us in IAOA promote and use Semantic Web technologies and reasoning methods; similarly, many in the Semantic Web community advocate more rigorous and principled ontologies based on ontological analysis. Therefore, we have proposed a Semantic Web Applied Ontology SIG to bridge the gap between our two communities before it gets wider. This SIG would support communication and collaboration with our colleagues in the Semantic Web (and Linked Data) community     (1D)

This is the initial meeting of IAOA members and non-members. Are you interested in this SIG? What do you think the SIG should do? How might the SIG work to bridge the gap? Would you participate in this SIG?     (1E)

Topics:     (1F)

  • 1. A short description of the IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology special interest group, and a brief charter.     (1G)
  • 2. This SIG will support communication and collaboration with our colleagues in the Semantic Web (and Linked Data) community (some of us are members of both communities). How will the SIG do that? What activities should we promote?     (1H)
  • 3. How should we structure this SIG? How often should we meet?     (1I)
  • 4. Who is interested in co-chairing this SIG? As with all IAOA SIGs and Committees, leadership is highly valued, but does require some time commitment, though this should not be onerous.     (1J)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1K)

  • Professor MichaelGruninger (IAOA President, U of Toronto) - "IAOA Semantic Web and Applied Ontology SIG" slides     (1L)
  • Professor PascalHitzler (Wright State U) - "Ontologies in a data-driven world: finding the middle ground" slides     (1M)
  • Professor KrzysztofJanowicz (UC Santa Barbara) - "Please don't agree -- Introducing Descartes-Core" slides     (1N)
  • Dr. LeoObrst (MITRE) - "Semantic Web Meets Applied Ontology: What Does it Mean?" slides     (1O)
  • Professor TillMossakowski (U of Magdeburg, Germany) - "Ontologies for the Semantic Web, and vice versa" slides     (1P)

  • Dial-in:     (1R4)
    • Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... (long distance cost may apply)     (1R4A)
    • in view of recently reported skype connection issues, this is not recommended (especially for speakers) although it may still work for some ... Skype: joinconference (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... ref.)     (1R4B)
      • when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1R4B1)
      • Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...     (1R4B2)
        • Add the contact "joinconference" to your skype contact list first. To participate in the teleconference, make a skype call to "joinconference", then open the dial pad (see platform-specific instructions below) and enter the Conference ID: 141184# when prompted.     (1R4B2A)
      • Can't find Skype Dial pad? ...     (1R4B3)
        • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1R4B3A)
        • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... (ref.)     (1R4B3B)
      • if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1R4B4)
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at:     (1R5)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1R5A)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1R5B)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1R5C)
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    • thanks to the folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1R6C)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1R7)
    • Nominally, when a presentation is in progress, the moderator will mute everyone, except for the speaker.     (1R7A)
    • To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6" (please mute your phone, especially if you are in a noisy surrounding, or if you are introducing noise, echoes, etc. into the conference line.)     (1R7B)
    • we will usually save all questions and discussions till after all presentations are through. You are encouraged to jot down questions onto the chat-area in the mean time (that way, they get documented; and you might even get some answers in the interim, through the chat.)     (1R7C)
    • During the Q&A / discussion segment (when everyone is muted), If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please raise your hand (virtually) by clicking on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the session moderator (again, press "*7" on your phone to un-mute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*6" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1R7D)
  • RSVP to appreciated, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)     (1R9)
  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1R11)

Attendees     (1S)

Agenda     (1T)

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG: Inaugural Meeting     (1T1)

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call     (1T2)

Proceedings     (1U)

Please refer to the above     (1U1)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session    (1U2)

see raw transcript here.     (1U2A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1U2B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1U2C)

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --     (1U2D)

Chat transcript from room: iaoa_20131125     (1U2E)

2013-11-25 GMT-08:00 [PST]     (1U2F)

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG: Inaugural Meeting - Mon 2013-11-25     (1U2H)

Description:     (1U2I)

The purpose of this session is to begin to form a Semantic Web Applied Ontology Special Interest Group (SIG)     (1U2J)

in the International Association for Ontology and its Applications (IAOA):     (1U2K)

This SIG aims to fill the gap between the Semantic Web community and the IAOA community.     (1U2L)

Convener: Dr. Leo Obrst (IAOA-EC; MITRE)     (1U2M)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1U2N)

Logistics:     (1U2T)

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName     (1U2V)
  • Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute     (1U2W)

(i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)     (1U2Z)

VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100     (1U2AB)

... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1U2AC)

missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)     (1U2AG)

Proceedings     (1U2AO)

[6:52] anonymous morphed into Christopher Spottiswoode     (1U2AP)

[6:55] anonymous morphed into PaulBrandt     (1U2AQ)

[6:56] anonymous1 morphed into Patrice Seyed     (1U2AR)

[6:59] anonymous1 morphed into ElieAbiLahoud     (1U2AS)

[7:00] anonymous morphed into Aleksandra Sojic     (1U2AT)

[7:01] anonymous morphed into Leora Morgenstern     (1U2AU)

[7:02] anonymous morphed into Krzysztof Janowicz     (1U2AV)

[7:02] anonymous1 morphed into Jonathan Bona     (1U2AW)

[7:02] anonymous morphed into Agnieszka Lawrynowicz     (1U2AX)

[7:03] anonymous2 morphed into Oris Friesen     (1U2AY)

[7:03] anonymous morphed into AnnRacuyaRobbins     (1U2AZ)

[7:03] Pascal Hitzler: I'm having trouble dialing in     (1U2AAB)

[7:03] Pascal Hitzler: is the skype chat "joinconference" online?     (1U2AAC)

[7:04] Peter P. Yim: @Pascal: yes ... just connect to it, even if it doesn't show that it is "online"     (1U2AAD)

[7:04] Pascal Hitzler: I dialed in via phone number that worked     (1U2AAE)

[7:04] Krzysztof Janowicz: Peter: IMHO, the 'for Linux Skype users:' message is no longer true     (1U2AAF)

[7:05] anonymous morphed into Andrea Westerinen     (1U2AAG)

[7:06] anonymous morphed into Torsten Hahmann     (1U2AAH)

[7:06] Frank Loebe: [in response to PeterYim's remark that LeoObrst's voice level seems comparatively     (1U2AAI)

low] @Peter: I hear Leo quite well, just like I hear you.     (1U2AAJ)

[7:07] anonymous morphed into Dennis Pierson     (1U2AAK)

[7:08] Peter P. Yim: == Leo Obrst starts the session - see slides under:     (1U2AAL)

[7:11] anonymous morphed into Tomasz Adamusiak     (1U2AAT)

[7:20] Michael Grüninger: I will update the slide deck (after this session) and insert the missing     (1U2AAV)

slides after #2 that describe key current IAOA activities and the way we structure them (in our     (1U2AAW)

committees and SIGs)     (1U2AAX)

... [20:50] updated slide deck swapped in (note: 2 slides inserted after the original slide#2. --ppy)     (1U2AAY)

[7:25] Peter P. Yim: == Pascal Hitzler presenting ...     (1U2AAZ)

[7:29] Harold Boley: "micro-ontologies" seem related to "micro-theories" in Cyc.     (1U2AAAA)

[7:30] Krzysztof Janowicz: we took it from R_V_Guha's work     (1U2AAAC)

[7:30] Mike Bennett: Pascal's point has important implications for ontology based standards - the     (1U2AAAD)

contexts need to be dealt with in the standards, in a way that designers of stand-alone ontology     (1U2AAAE)

applications don't need to grapple with.     (1U2AAAF)

[7:33] ElieAbiLahoud: @MikeBennett, if we use ontologies to model possible contexts, aren't we just     (1U2AAAG)

transposing the issues Pascal is discussing? ...     (1U2AAAH)

[7:34] Mike Bennett: Yes. As distinct to ignoring them and trying to apply the approach which works     (1U2AAAI)

in stand-alone ontology applications, to the development of the standards.     (1U2AAAJ)

[7:36] Francesca Quattri: what do we (still) need in ontology? This little resembles the discussion     (1U2AAAK)

that we had at the latest ER2013 conference with John Mylopoulos, when he was proposing his approach     (1U2AAAL)

to conceptual modeling. one thing is clear: more sensitivity and background knowledge in natural     (1U2AAAM)

language (jargons, genres, synonyms...)     (1U2AAAN)

[7:39] Michael Grüninger: Work in ontology repositories emphasizes relationships between ontologies,     (1U2AAAO)

identifying common patterns, and sharable sub-ontologies. I think Till will talk about this as well.     (1U2AAAP)

[7:41] anonymous morphed into Bruce Bray     (1U2AAAQ)

[7:42] Mike Bennett: Can patterns be thought of as representing archetypical representations of high     (1U2AAAR)

level, extensible atomic concepts?     (1U2AAAS)

[7:45] Todd Schneider: Mike, yes. But which/what concepts (do the patterns represent)?     (1U2AAAT)

[7:47] Mike Bennett: @Todd the "simplest kind of thing" for that kind of concept. The thing which, if     (1U2AAAU)

one removed any one property, it would no longer be one of that kind of thing (e.g. an agreement     (1U2AAAV)

without two parties isn't an agreement, it's a pledge).     (1U2AAAW)

[7:45] Pascal Hitzler: @MikeBennett: I'm not sure they necessarily need to be high-level. It seems to     (1U2AAAX)

me that we need them at all levels, both high-level conceptual, abstract things (events, processes,     (1U2AAAY)

trajectories), but also more concrete content/vocabulary, possibly as refinements of higher-level     (1U2AAAZ)

abstractions.     (1U2AAAAA)

[7:46] Mike Bennett: @Pascal thanks. I'm thinking of concepts like Transaction, Contract etc.; if one     (1U2AAAAB)

can identify the fundamental properties that always apply to contracts, then anything which is a     (1U2AAAAC)

contract extends this within the same pattern.     (1U2AAAAD)

[7:47] Pascal Hitzler: @Mike: that sounds right to me. From my current perspective, one of the     (1U2AAAAE)

decisive things about patterns is that they only incorporate ontological commitments which are     (1U2AAAAF)

widely shareable.     (1U2AAAAG)

[7:51] Mike Bennett: @Pascal I think that's realistically achievable for business-related terms since     (1U2AAAAH)

many of these are ultimately grounded in law, contract, accounting and the like.     (1U2AAAAI)

[7:48] Leo Obrst: @all: I encourage everyone to also comment in the chat about your thoughts for the     (1U2AAAAK)

way forward for this SWAO SIG, and how you might contribute/volunteer. Also what you would like to     (1U2AAAAL)

see the SIG accomplish. And next steps.     (1U2AAAAM)

[7:52] Todd Schneider: Leo, one item/issue that this SIG could help with is promoting common     (1U2AAAAN)

terminology (and its interpretation).     (1U2AAAAO)

[8:22] PaulBrandt: [in response to Leo Obrst request 7:48] With respect to bridging the two     (1U2AAAAP)

communities: both have their strength and weaknesses. Probably the weaknesses of the one will not be     (1U2AAAAQ)

complemented by the strengths of the other, in general. Some specific examples, however, definitely     (1U2AAAAR)

can be found. I would suggest to take as leading principle for the SIG, at least initially (low     (1U2AAAAS)

hanging fruit), precisely such an approach in order to gather the first positive results and hence     (1U2AAAAT)

create the SIG's right for existence.     (1U2AAAAU)

[7:49] anonymous morphed into Kathy Ellis     (1U2AAAAV)

[7:58] Pascal Hitzler: @Mike: One key consideration when making a pattern is that of the "scope". How     (1U2AAAAW)

much do we want to include? There's a trade-off here of course, the wider the scope the less you can     (1U2AAAAX)

often say. My feeling is that it's easier to find a wide scope e.g. in contexts where established     (1U2AAAAY)

shared notions already exist. Really understanding this "scope" aspect is imo one of the things     (1U2AAAAZ)

which need to be investigated.     (1U2AAAAAA)

[7:58] Andrea Westerinen: Is the issue to think more broadly about ontologies than just the concepts     (1U2AAAAAB)

and relationships, but the formalisms and patterns as well ... and then provide a way to capture and     (1U2AAAAAC)

curate these patterns? Maybe this is more about what emerges than about what we think should emerge.     (1U2AAAAAD)

[7:59] Andrea Westerinen: Initially what "emerges" is probably strictly a manual analysis...     (1U2AAAAAE)

[7:59] Mike Bennett: @Pascal agreed.     (1U2AAAAAF)

[8:00] Pascal Hitzler: I would argue that every well-made ontology is essentially a composition of     (1U2AAAAAG)

patterns. Regretfully, though, the patterns are "lost" in the ontology. We could do so much more if     (1U2AAAAAH)

we had the patterns explicitly available.     (1U2AAAAAI)

[8:00] Andrea Westerinen: @Pascal That is the key and what I was trying to say.     (1U2AAAAAJ)

[8:01] Andrea Westerinen: @Pascal If even a small set of "us" (ontologists) started to do this,     (1U2AAAAAK)

it would be valuable.     (1U2AAAAAL)

[8:01] Pascal Hitzler: And by the way, also each Linked Dataset is essentially a collection of     (1U2AAAAAM)

information snippets which are represented using subgraphs which correspond to some types of     (1U2AAAAAN)

patterns. So the patterns are there as well, but again, they are only implicit, and a lot of the     (1U2AAAAAO)

trouble with reusing linked data is that the patterns are not exposed explicitly.     (1U2AAAAAP)

[8:02] Pascal Hitzler: @Andrea: agreed. In our GeoVoCamps (where we make patterns), for example, it's     (1U2AAAAAQ)

very important to have contributors who know about the deeper modeling issues - just like it is important     (1U2AAAAAR)

to have domain experts, application-oriented persons, and some who understand the tricky logical aspects.     (1U2AAAAAS)

[8:03] Andrea Westerinen: It may be obvious, but the patterns that one person sees may be different     (1U2AAAAAT)

than what was originally designed. That would highlight the need to publish and curate.     (1U2AAAAAU)

[8:04] Pascal Hitzler: @Andrea: YES!     (1U2AAAAAV)

[8:06] Mike Bennett: One challenge we have found with the above, is that if you have a well formed     (1U2AAAAAW)

ontology with good use of restrictions, this is almost impossible to represent to the business     (1U2AAAAAX)

stakeholders in a meaningful way. A more "naive" use of e.g. OWL without these features, is more     (1U2AAAAAY)

consumable to business but doesn't correspond one to one with the well formed ontology. Need to     (1U2AAAAAZ)

think of ways to alias the more formal ontology patterns in terms of their implications for business     (1U2AAAAAAA)

meaning in a way that business folks can follow. An ontology is of limited use if the business     (1U2AAAAAAB)

haven't been able to validate it as representing what they know.     (1U2AAAAAAC)

[8:08] Andrea Westerinen: @Mike Agreed. I have struggled with that for some time. I take an approach     (1U2AAAAAAD)

of discussing the concepts in the language and context of the business users. This is more of a     (1U2AAAAAAE)

written narrative for the ontology versus the formal. Yes, the formal is there but it comes after     (1U2AAAAAAF)

the narrative. This seems to help, but ultimately the logic makes the business users' "heads explode". :-)     (1U2AAAAAAG)

[8:09] Andrea Westerinen: Then, the last piece is to prove that the logic is correct - which is     (1U2AAAAAAH)

proven by use and example.     (1U2AAAAAAI)

[8:11] ElieAbiLahoud: @Andrea, I like "written narrative for the ontology" I use SBVR to do this     (1U2AAAAAAJ)

[8:12] Andrea Westerinen: @Elie Yes, I value SBVR but find that it is too complex. I do use the     (1U2AAAAAAK)

concepts and approach. However, I tune the narrative to use cases, personas and scenarios.     (1U2AAAAAAL)

[8:17] Mike Bennett: @Andrea / @Elie we've taken a more ambitious approach, which was to come up with     (1U2AAAAAAM)

diagrams which are free of Semantic Tech terminology, but which can be explained using set theory,     (1U2AAAAAAN)

which everyone understands. Restrictions were a challenge for this, but I think I've figured out a     (1U2AAAAAAO)

way of presenting these graphically. Of course in any group of business people, some need diagrams     (1U2AAAAAAP)

and some need text. All of them need to see formal definitions to back up their understanding of the     (1U2AAAAAAQ)

concepts presented.     (1U2AAAAAAR)

[8:17] ElieAbiLahoud: @Andrea, I understand and I see the need for that tuning when we have a final     (1U2AAAAAAS)

application in mind (as opposed to just capture the shared understanding in an Ontology that might     (1U2AAAAAAT)

be used as a vocabulary only...)     (1U2AAAAAAU)

[8:19] ElieAbiLahoud: @Mike, looking forward to seeing your new way of graphically presenting     (1U2AAAAAAV)

[8:19] Andrea Westerinen: @Mike YES, would love to see the approach.     (1U2AAAAAAX)

[8:21] Andrea Westerinen: @Elie I always start with the "why" I am developing the ontology (what     (1U2AAAAAAY)

questions to answer, what domains to understand, etc.). This then motivates the narrative. It is not     (1U2AAAAAAZ)

necessarily a single application but the reasons for developing the ontology.     (1U2AAAAAAAA)

[8:10] Michael Grüninger: Again, what Krzysztof calls a "network of micro-ontologies" is the focus of     (1U2AAAAAAAB)

ontology repository projects like COLORE and projects like OntoIOp (which focus on alignment and     (1U2AAAAAAAC)

translation techniques).     (1U2AAAAAAAD)

[8:10] Peter P. Yim: == Leo Obrst presenting ...     (1U2AAAAAAAE)

[8:21] Pascal Hitzler: @Leo: My perspective would be that the patterns are already in the (well-done)     (1U2AAAAAAAF)

ontologies, essentially. Primarily, they need to be exposed as stand-alone patterns.     (1U2AAAAAAAG)

[8:24] anonymous morphed into Veruska Zamborlini     (1U2AAAAAAAI)

[8:27] Peter P. Yim: == Q&A and open Discussion ...     (1U2AAAAAAAJ)

[8:29] Peter P. Yim: ref. slide#4 of the intro deck -     (1U2AAAAAAAK)

Topics for Discussion Today     (1U2AAAAAAAM)

1)A short description of the IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology special interest group, and a brief charter     (1U2AAAAAAAN)

2)How will this SIG support communication and collaboration with our colleagues in the Semantic Web     (1U2AAAAAAAO)

(and Linked Data) community? Some of us are members of both communities What activities should we promote?     (1U2AAAAAAAP)

3)How should we structure this SIG? How often should we meet?     (1U2AAAAAAAQ)

4)Who is interested in co-chairing this SIG?     (1U2AAAAAAAR)

As with all IAOA SIGs and Committees, leadership is highly valued; does require some time     (1U2AAAAAAAS)

commitment, though this should not be onerous     (1U2AAAAAAAT)

[8:24] Andrea Westerinen: Would it make sense to further highlight patterns in some defined     (1U2AAAAAAAU)

ontologies and work to curate and document them? This would provide a repository for industry use.     (1U2AAAAAAAV)

[8:25] Michael Grüninger: @AndreaWesterinen: Yes!     (1U2AAAAAAAW)

[8:26] Pascal Hitzler: @Andrea: Yes I think this would make sense. One approach would be to take     (1U2AAAAAAAX)

several well-designed ontologies which talk about some central/abstract notion, and start with the     (1U2AAAAAAAY)

intrinsic patterns as input. In a sense, you'll always look at existing ontologies anyway when     (1U2AAAAAAAZ)

making a pattern.     (1U2AAAAAAAAA)

[8:26] ElieAbiLahoud: Anyone has looked at or collaborated with:     (1U2AAAAAAAAB)

[8:26] Pascal Hitzler: is always one of the places to look at when     (1U2AAAAAAAAD)

working on patterns. I don't think that too much is happening there recently, though.     (1U2AAAAAAAAE)

[8:28] Andrea Westerinen: Regarding the design patterns site, yes, I have looked and it is a bit scattered.     (1U2AAAAAAAAF)

[8:37] Krzysztof Janowicz: Andrea: to a certain degree this is exactly what     (1U2AAAAAAAAG) did for DOLCE (and other ontologies)     (1U2AAAAAAAAH)

[8:29] Pascal Hitzler: Also, the presentation is sometimes not very helpful on the site. Many good     (1U2AAAAAAAAI)

ideas to find there, though.     (1U2AAAAAAAAJ)

[8:30] ElieAbiLahoud: It would be interesting to get this SIG's feedback on     (1U2AAAAAAAAK), a possible item in upcoming activities?     (1U2AAAAAAAAL)

[8:30] ElieAbiLahoud: @Pascal, Andrea, THX     (1U2AAAAAAAAM)

[8:32] Peter P. Yim: @Leo - it would be nice to adopt a "Mission Statement" for the SIG, and then     (1U2AAAAAAAAN)

identify a few champions to drive this effort forward     (1U2AAAAAAAAO)

[8:34] Torsten Hahmann: Maybe we should use the activities in preparation of the Ontology Summit to     (1U2AAAAAAAAP)

develop core areas of interests for the SIG and, eventually, a shared mission     (1U2AAAAAAAAQ)

[8:34] Mike Bennett: I think there was a clear focus on the presentations which should translate OK     (1U2AAAAAAAAR)

to a mission statement.     (1U2AAAAAAAAS)

[8:38] Krzysztof Janowicz: IMHO, the key here is community involvement (also beyond AO and SW)     (1U2AAAAAAAAT)

[8:39] Andrea Westerinen: @Krzysztof Agreed.     (1U2AAAAAAAAU)

[8:38] Andrea Westerinen: The "applied" ontologies that I mentioned are IRING (based on ISO 15926)     (1U2AAAAAAAAV)

and FIBO. It might be valuable to mine these for patterns. Other ontologies that I have used/reused     (1U2AAAAAAAAW)

are the W3C Time and Provenance ontologies.     (1U2AAAAAAAAX)

[8:40] Pascal Hitzler: yes community involvement (in particular: different types of stakeholders)     (1U2AAAAAAAAY)

helps to make versatile patterns.     (1U2AAAAAAAAZ)

[8:40] Andrea Westerinen: @Mike I have also reused the higher level FIBO concepts.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAA)

[8:42] Andrea Westerinen: @Mike Exactly as you just discussed.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAB)

[8:43] Mike Bennett: @Andrea that's great, I'd love to know more about which and when, and what     (1U2AAAAAAAAAC)

issues you might have had in consuming this information and getting value out of it.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAD)

[8:46] Pascal Hitzler: @Fabian: yes, patterns for organizing an ontology. However the key challenge     (1U2AAAAAAAAAE)

is to deal with semantic heterogeneity - how to do ontological modeling such that we can enable     (1U2AAAAAAAAAF)

reuse without forcing specific ontological commitments.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAG)

[8:48] Joanne Luciano: Arriving late and leaving early... we are celebrating two PhD defenses Dr.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAI)

Alvaro Graves Fuenzalida and Dr. Xian Li who successfully defended their PhD thesis. Looking forward     (1U2AAAAAAAAAJ)

re: catching up on this topic.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAK)

[8:48] Peter P. Yim: I strongly suggest we try to identify a few (5?) people passionate enough to commit     (1U2AAAAAAAAAL)

themselves to moving this SIG forward in the next few minutes ... past then, please identify the     (1U2AAAAAAAAAM)

logistics on where can the community continue to discuss this (i.e. moving the SIG forward)     (1U2AAAAAAAAAN)

[8:48] Krzysztof Janowicz: IMHO, this is not about KR languages but about modeling traditions and goals     (1U2AAAAAAAAAO)

[8:49] Mike Bennett: I'm passionate about the stuff I was talking about but I appreciate there are a     (1U2AAAAAAAAAP)

lot of other issues on the table.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAQ)

[8:50] Michael Grüninger: @Fabian: we can discuss general ontology issues in this SIG -- the idea     (1U2AAAAAAAAAR)

here is that the issues are motivated by those which arise and have impact in the Semantic Web     (1U2AAAAAAAAAS)

[8:50] Torsten Hahmann: @Fabian, Pascal: I think focusing on general challenges such as dealing with     (1U2AAAAAAAAAT)

semantic heterogeneity seems more appropriate for the SIG. The focus on ontology patterns seems a     (1U2AAAAAAAAAU)

bit redundant because interdisciplinary work is already well underway. Generally, I feel we should     (1U2AAAAAAAAAV)

focus on long-term challenges that neither community can address alone. That would really leverage     (1U2AAAAAAAAAW)

the cooperation between the communities.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAX)

[8:50] Andrea Westerinen: @Pascal My reuse rarely takes full ontologies and uses them wholesale. I do     (1U2AAAAAAAAAY)

take pieces and concepts and reuse them, combine them together to solve my domain issues.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAZ)

[8:51] Andrea Westerinen: Kind of like combining different tools or open-source pieces.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAA)

[8:51] Leo Obrst: @all: perhaps as mission statement, aspects of my initial slide 2, i.e., Purpose and Description?     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAB)

[8:52] Torsten Hahmann: @Leo: your slide 2 seems very appropriate for a mission statement     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAC)

[9:03] Peter P. Yim: Leo Obrst: proposing (tentative) Mission Statement of the IAOA SWAO SIG as a     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAD)

paraphrasing of what's on slide#2 of the intro deck -     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAE)

[8:52] Pascal Hitzler: @Krzysztof: yes. In fact, the specific KR languages are imo rather secondary.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAG)

[8:53] Pascal Hitzler: @Andrea: yes I believe that's often done. It would be easier, imo, if we had explicit patterns :)     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAI)

[8:53] Fabian Neuhaus: @Pascal, Andrea: thank you, I understand now better what you mean. I think was     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAJ)

just puzzled since I have been working an similar subjects (e.g., contexts where different languages     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAK)

are used, semantic heterogeneity, the modular design of ontologies) without thinking them as     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAL)

particular problems of the semantic web, but rather general problems of ontology development     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAM)

[8:55] Andrea Westerinen: @Pascal Agreed. I often wondered if I missed something in my reuse, that I     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAN)

could have learned from.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAO)

[8:56] Fabian Neuhaus: @PascalHitzler, Andrea Westerinen, Michael Grüninger: But as Michael said: the     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAP)

SIG should work on issues that are motivated by challenges from the semantic web, even if they are     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAQ)

not specific just to the SW.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAR)

[8:59] Nancy Wiegand: Since this year's summit is on this topic, then the short term goals would be     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAS)

to facilitate that discussion.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAT)

[9:00] Andrea Westerinen: I would be happy to volunteer (and am an IAOA member).     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAU)

[9:00] Mike Bennett: I would be happy to participate (and intend to join the IAOA anyway)     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAV)

[9:01] Peter P. Yim: Join us again, next week (Thu 2013-12-05) for the Ontology Summit 2014 Pre-Launch     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAX)

Community Session, when we will collaboratively work up a program for the next Ontology Summit (which     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAY)

is slated to launch on Thu 2014.01.16)     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAZ)

[9:02] Krzysztof Janowicz: let's keep this inclusive and not dive too early in making this an IAOA thing only.     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAA)

[9:03] ElieAbiLahoud: I am happy to contribute/ participate in any needed capacity     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAC)

[9:04] PaulBrandt: Maybe a SW top player as chair of the SIG in order to keep it inclusive, explicitly     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAD)

[9:04] Krzysztof Janowicz: Thanks Peter, Leo, Michael for organizing     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAE)

[9:05] Andrea Westerinen: Yes, thanks for organizing and the presentations!     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAG)

[9:05] Francesca Quattri: great talks, thanks!     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAH)

[9:05] Peter P. Yim: -- session adjourned: 9:05am PST --     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAI)

[9:05] PaulBrandt: Thank you and Bye Bye     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAJ)

... [subsequently too:] William Sweet, ...     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAN)

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --     (1U2AAAAAAAAAAAO)

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