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Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion: "CL Support for OOR" - Fri 10-Sep-2010

  • Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"
  • Chair: Dr. JohnSowa (VivoMind Intelligence) - [ slides ]
  • Panelists:
    • Professor JohnBateman and Dr. habil. TillMossakowski (Bremen U) - "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)" - [ slides ] . [ demo-video-clip ]
    • Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) - "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project" - [ slides ]
    • Mr. CameronRoss (Kojeware) - "An OOR Implementation for COLORE" - [ slides ]
    • Mr. AdamPease (Articulate Software) - "Sigma as an OOR" - [ slides ]
    • Dr. PatHayes - some comments on work presented at this session

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Friday, 10-September-2010
  • Start Time: 12:00pm EDT / 9:00am PDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 16:00 UTC
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  • Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.

Attendees

  • Expecting:
    • ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail <peter.yim@cim3.com> so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...

Resources

Agenda & Proceedings

Session: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR" Panel Discussion

  • Session Format & Agenda: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call:

Abstracts

  • Session Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"
Abstract: ... this session will be devoted to exploring the various alternatives available to provide Common Logic (ISO/IEC 24707) support for the Open Ontology Repository (OOR) initiative.

Panel Member Talks

Abstract: ... The Heterogeneous Tool Set (Hets) is a multi-logic parsing, analysis

and proof tool. The logics covered by Hets include propositional logic (with SAT solvers minisat and zChaff), OWL (with provers Pellet and FACT++), first-order logic (with provers SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe), and higher-order logic (with prover Isabelle). Recently, we have added Common Logic to Hets, offering both parsing and proof tools for Common Logic. SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe are available for proofs in Common Logic, as well as Isabelle (if induction on lists is needed). Moreover, a translation from OWL into Common Logic is provided. Last but not least, the language HetCASL provides heterogeneous structuring and refinement, making it possible e.g. to verify that the OWL version of an ontology is indeed implied by its Common Logic version, or verify logical relations between different ontologies. We propose functionalities of this kind as highly desirable for next generation ontology management and repository building.

Abstract: I will give an overview of the objectives for the COLORE project,

covering ontological engineering, issues specific to Common Logic, and issues related to software functionality.

ref. http://stl.mie.utoronto.ca/colore/ontologies.html
Abstract: ... This talk will outline efforts by Kojeware Corporation and the Semantic Technologies Laboratory at the University of Toronto to develop an open system for hosting a repository of Common Logic content from Goolge's cloud computing infrastructure. The requirements of this system will be summarized and a high-level description of the system will be presented. The Resource-Oriented Architecture we have designed to expose CL content using RESTful services will also be presented. Challenges with naming CL resources using globally unique and location-independent identifiers (i.e. URNs) will be discussed, and disparities between our requirements and capabilities of the current BioPortal system will be summarized.
ref. Announcement - Open Source release of Samian Platform: http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/samian-platform/
Abstract: ... This brief talk will outline the capabilities of the open source (under GNU GPL/LGPL) Sigma Knowledge Engineering Environment http://sigmakee.sourceforge.net. Sigma has been released and developed on Source Forge starting in 2004. This talk will discuss its existing tool set including browsing, analysis and inference. Sigma supports SUO-KIF, with import/export capabilities for OWL, and TPTP formats. Its embedded inference system supports full first order logic with equality. An experimental higher order inference system is also included. While developed for the Suggested Upper Merged Ontology, Sigma can support any theory or set of theories of equivalent or lesser expressiveness. The SUO-KIF appears to be a concrete syntax of CL, and little effort would be required to allow CLIF display/import/export within Sigma.
ref. http://www.ontologyportal.org/ & http://sigma3.cim3.net:4010/sigma/Browse.jsp?kb=SUMO&lang=en

Transcript of the online chat during the session

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin of chat session --

Peter P. Yim: .

Welcome to the Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion - Fri 10-Sep-2010

  • Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"
  • Panelists:

o Professor John Bateman and Dr. habil. Till Mossakowski (Bremen U)

- "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)"

o Professor Michael Grüninger (U of Toronto)

- "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project"

o Mr. Cameron Ross (Kojeware)

- "An OOR Implementation for COLORE"

o Mr. Adam Pease (Articulate Software)

- "Sigma as an OOR"

o Dr. Pat Hayes - some comments on work presented at this session

please refer to dial-in and other details (incl. slide download links) on the session page

at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10

.

Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button (top center)

anonymous morphed into vnc2

anonymous morphed into Tom Russ

anonymous morphed into John Bateman

anonymous morphed into Matt Hettinger

Doug Foxvog: put the video link on the chat page

John Bateman: The Hets demo video is at: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~till/hets-cl.avi

anonymous morphed into Elizabeth Florescu

Peter P. Yim: = John F. Sowa presenting (started 9:13am PDT) ...

Doug Foxvog: Can the Prolog cut operator be easily handled by First-Order logic?

Ali Hashemi: i think it should be on slide in the vnc

Ali Hashemi: slide 5*

Doug Foxvog: The slide should be advance to slide 5 as Ali said

Doug Foxvog: Slide 7 now!

Till Mossakowski: A smaller version (3.5GB) of the Hets demo video is at:

http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~till/hets-cl-small.avi

Ali Hashemi: (the link to JohnB's pdf version is not working)

Ali Hashemi: try VLC http://www.videolan.org/ ?

Ali Hashemi: otherwise you might need to update some codecs

Doug Foxvog: I can play it with the VLC media player.

Rick Murphy: For folks who are interested. Hets is easy to install and config. Need to lean a little

Haskell, understand the background and you're good to go.

Till Mossakowski: However, you can install and run Hets without any Haskell knowledge. Haskell

knowledge is only needed if you want to develop Hets.

Tom Russ: Quicktime on Mac is unable to play the movie.

Cameron Ross: I'm uploading the small video to youtube... it should be available shortly

Rick Murphy: Till's right. I was just think about those who want to get their hands dirty. Also great

support by Christian Maeder !

Cameron Ross: try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33zsD48pKP4 and set your player to 480p

Peter P. Yim: thanks, Cameron ... this would work (probably for most of us)

Cameron Ross: Just click the link above and it will start in your browser

anonymous2 morphed into Pavithra Kenjige

Cameron Ross: @Peter - ctrl L will put Adobe Reader into fullscreen

Peter P. Yim: the youtube link is now posted to the session page too

Peter P. Yim: @Cameron - I am aware of that, but when the slide decks don't show a slide number, I'll

need to stay on the smaller window to know what slide number we are on

Cameron Ross: @Peter - makes sense

Peter P. Yim: = Michael Grüninger presenting (start 9:59am PDT) ...

Todd Schneider: Thank you to all presenters. Have to go.

Peter P. Yim: bye, Todd

Peter P. Yim: = Cameron Ross presenting (started 10:09am PDT) ...

anonymous2 morphed into Pat Hayes

Pat Hayes: hi all, Pat Hayes just got online.

Peter P. Yim: Hi Pat ... glad you made it!

Pat Hayes: hi peter. which slides are we in?

Peter P. Yim: please morph into your real name (use "Settings" button at top center of window)

Peter P. Yim: CameronRoss's slide#4

John Bateman: The high resolution version of the HETS/CL demo video is now also on youtube at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTTYQL3G6c

Peter P. Yim: Thanks John & Till ... links on session pages updated - ref

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10#nid2GTM

Adam Pease: phone battery died dialing back in

John Bateman: There seems to be a terminological confusion between "Common Logic" as the CL that

appears in CLIF files, and "Common Logic" in the broader sense. Otherwise it does not really make

sense to talk of a "CL dedicated reasoner": what is necessary surely is the connection between many

different reasoners as appropriate for the expressivity of the particular sublogics that CL may

define (as argued for by John F. Sowa just now): i.e., what Hets does.

Pat Hayes: johnB: yes, people often say CL when they really mean CLIF. However, there is what one

might call a natural bias in CL to cover the whole free cl syntax, which goes beyond KIF in

significant ways.

anonymous6 morphed into Bart Gajderowicz

anonymous6 morphed into Till Mossakowski

Cameron Ross: @Adam - One issue I've found with translating SuoKif to CL is that SuoKif allows terms

to be sentences. However, over the thousands of sentences contained within SUMO, there are only 57

sentences that use this construct.

Till Mossakowski: We have developed a technique for proving consistency of ontologies by amalgamating

small models, conservative extensions, and refinements. We have applied this to DOLCE, which is not

as huge as SUMO, but larger then anything model finders can handle.

Peter P. Yim: I was disconnected from this chat-session (the soaphub.org server may have been down) just

now ... and have lost the chat-transcript prior to now ... if anyone still has that, kindly say so

(and send me a copy for the archives, please

Bart Gajderowicz: @PeterYim: I have it, will archive and forward to you, Peter

Peter P. Yim: thanks, Bart!

John Bateman: Note to Adam on CVS: actually there are many reasons to go beyond basic text CVS. We

are currently exploring the use of the XML-aware versioning system TnTBase (probably to be talked

about next week) and interfacing this with BioPortal. There is also work ongoing on semantic object

versioning, which is where we will want to be for ontology engineering I expect. TnTBase is,

however, built *on top* of standand versioning tools, so I would agree with Adam that there should

be no duplication of effort or repeating work that already exists, just because we are looking at

ontologies.

anonymous2 morphed into Rick Murphy

anonymous9 morphed into Michael Grüninger

anonymous morphed into Immanuel Normann

John Bateman: For alignment and translation between ontologies, we have moved on somewhat: I'd refer

you to the work from Till Mossakowski, Oliver Kutz, Immanuel Normann on 'shapes of alignment'. This

makes much of the discussion about fixing particular vocabularies redundant.

Doug Foxvog: The 90% ^ 5 => 6% argument only holds if each step is independent of the previous ones.

However, if one is looking at logic chains, the separate steps are likely to be in the same context.

Thus if the 90% covers the first step, the likelihood that terms in following rules also correspond

should be far higher than 90%.

anonymous morphed into John F. Sowa

Adam Pease: I'm tempted to comment on the ontology discussion, but isn't it very off topic? This call

is about an OOR, not upper ontology

John Bateman: I agree with Adam: old debates.

Ali Hashemi: Depending on how the modules are related to one another (Conservative vs Non

Conservative) it goes a long way in addressing PatCassidy's point

Cameron Ross: @AdamPease and @JohnBateman - I'm currently looking into the possibility of integrating

and re-branding the Google Code hosting service for an OOR.

John Bateman: Pat: before you go.... can we have agreement on the module semantics!!! We're waiting

on this to finalise the Hets treatment of the modules.

Cameron Ross: @PatHayes - I have a pile of comments regarding a revised spec! I'll start a dialog.

anonymous1: Where's the CL mailing list?

Peter P. Yim: who is this? "anonymous1"

Ali Hashemi: http://philebus.tamu.edu/mailman/listinfo/cl

John Bateman: @PatHayes: we *need* the module decision!!!

Cameron Ross: @PatCassidy - in terms of translation, the Samian Platform will support arbitrarily

complex transformations steps, including steps that require complex reasoning... just need to know

what thot is

Pavithra Kenjige: @Dr.Sowa I am not in the common logic group, but I was interested in listen ingto

this group Thanks! Thanks every body!

Peter P. Yim: thanks everyone ... great session!

Ali Hashemi: Thanks + Bye!

Cameron Ross: Bye everyone... thanks!

Peter P. Yim: -- session ended 11:10am PDT --

Till Mossakowski: good bye

John Bateman: See y'all.

Peter P. Yim: @Bart ... looks like I do have a copy of the chat-transcript after all (from the vnc

server) ... therefore, no need to send, but really appreciate your offer to help, nonetheless!

Bart Gajderowicz: @PeterYim, no problem

Peter P. Yim: Thanks again, Bart ... ttyl!

-- end of chat session --

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  • Conference Date and Time: 10-Sep-2010 9:12am ~ 11:10am PDT
  • Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 50 Minutes
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