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- this session will be devoted to the establishment, discussion, program planning, coordination and scheduling of events and activities for the emerging SemanticWiki mini-series. We are hoping that individuals deeply interested in this topic, including candidate speakers and panelists, will be able to join us at this planning session to help forge a program that will be useful and meaningful to the community. (1B)
- Date: Thursday, Sep. 18, 2008 (1D1)
- Start Time: 10:30 AM PDT / 1:30 PM EDT / 7:30pm CEST / 17:30 UTC (1D2)
- Expected Call Duration: ~1.5 hours (1D3)
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- Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ (1D5)
- view-only password: "ontolog" (1D5A)
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- people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides below and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk. (1D5C)
- This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2008_09_18 (1D8)
- Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy. (1D9)
- Attended: (1F1)
- Expecting: (1F2)
- ... to register for participation, please add your name (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above, or e-mail <peter.yim@cim3.com> so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ... (1F3A)
- Regrets: (1F4)
In a recent community planning session, it was identified that the development and application of semantic wikis has been growing at such a fast pace in the last 2~3 years. Those at the meeting agreed that it would be very useful to create an opportunity to allow those in the ontology community who are doing relevant work to come together, discuss their work, exchange ideas and explore possible collaboration.
(1G1)
Li Ding (RPI Tetherless World Constellatiion), Sebastian Schaffert (Salzburg Research, Austria), Harold Solbrig (Mayo Clinic), Max Voelkel (AIFB-Karlsruhe) and Peter P. Yim (Ontolog, CIM3) have graciously agreed to co-champion a mini-series with the above focus. They put some initial thoughts together, and started to reach out to others in the community to help forge a program that could be meaningful and useful to the broader ontology community.
(1G2)
This is the planning meeting that we hope individuals deeply interested in the subject of semantic wikis (researchers, developers, program administrators), including, of course, candidate speakers and panelists, can all come together virtually, to explore and put together this Semantic Wiki mini-series program.
(1G3)
See: SemanticWiki ... the developing home page for this mini-series project
(1G4)
SemanticWiki mini-series: program planning
(1H1)
- Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call (1H2)
- 0. Opening (5 minutes) (1H2A)
- 1. we'll go around with a self-introduction of participants (15~20 minutes) (1H2B)
- 2. Overview: SemanticWiki mini-series: background, objectives, and what we want to achieve at this meeting (10 min.) (1H2C)
- 3. Open discussion: (all) (1H2D)
- 3.1 What do we want to get out of this mini-series? (1H2E)
- those in attendance are requested to make an entry, onto the chatboard with their top 3 items on their wish-list (from this mini-series) (1H2E1)
- 3.2 Who are the individuals and institutions doing relevant work that we want to hear/learn from? (1H2F)
- 3.3 Program and Deliverables - scoping and clustering, program span and number of sessions, scheduling the sessions, ... (1H2G)
- 3.4 (possibly) Adopt a scope, span, and a set of objectives for this mini-series (1H2H)
- 4. Support infrastructure and administrivia; announcements (1H2I)
- 5. Conclusion / Follow-up (5 minutes) (1H2J)
- Some initial thoughts - see: /Prep (1H3B)
- Join the community mailing list - [swikig] (1H3C)
- watch out for upcoming events in this series - they will be announced on the [swikig] and [ontolog-invitation] lists (1H3D)
- (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when the talk is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3" (1H4A)
- (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please "raise your hand (virtually)" by pressing "11" on your phone keypad. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator. Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (1H4B)
- pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="ontolog_20080918" and My Name="Your Own WikiWord Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe") (1H4C1)
- instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen. (1H4D1)
- thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20080918@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices! (1H4E)
The transcript has been edited to improve on readability and relevance. Participants are encouraged to review,
(1H5A)
and edit their own statements to clarify their messages, where appropriate. =ppy
(1H5B)
Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the SemanticWiki mini-series: program planning session - Thu 18-Sep-2008
(1H5C)
- this session will be devoted to the establishment, discussion, program planning, coordination and (1H5E)
scheduling of events and activities for the emerging SemanticWiki mini-series. We are hoping that
(1H5F)
individuals deeply interested in this topic, including candidate speakers and panelists, will be
(1H5G)
able to join us at this planning session to help forge a program that will be useful and meaningful
(1H5H)
to the community.
(1H5I)
Peter P. Yim: Matthias ... if you are behind firewalls, you'll probably have difficulities with the VNC service,
(1H5K)
just download the slides and ruin it on your desktop, please
(1H5L)
[ed. - In reference to SebastianSchaffert's remark, during the slide presentation, that the
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traditional "openness" associated with wiki's is no longer a mandate, as there are
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many private instances of wikis running, as people do set them up behind firewalls
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in institutional settings. Other remarks that immediately follow may also be in response
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to things being said on the presentation. =ppy]
(1H5Q)
Christoph Lange: concerning openness, I'd still say a wiki is more "open" than other systems,
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because usually most people who _do_ have access, are treated equally
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Sebastian Schaffert: I am from Bavaria, so beer is of high importance (and supports creativity )
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Sebastian Schaffert: regarding openness: what I am referring to is that in enterprise settings
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you often have to find a compromise; most companies are still hierarchically
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organised and they want some control over whom can access and modify what
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Denny Vrandecic: it is a rdf browser, but the newer version allows you also to edit the data
(1H5AJ)
Christoph Lange: Denny: Does it feel like editing a document, or rather like a table/form/spreadsheet?
(1H5AN)
Sebastian Schaffert: it's probably one of the most important application areas for wikis in general
(1H5AR)
Denny Vrandecic: km is not really an application... isnt every semwiki an application of km?
(1H5AT)
Christoph Lange: Sebastian: well, but RDF is about knowledge _representation_, so in _theory_ it's
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not a big step to knowledge management
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Sebastian Schaffert: please, no philosophical discussions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Management
(1H5AAG)
Christoph Lange: Sebastian: Thanks! I must admit that my "mathematical knowledge management" has
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a wider view on the term
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Sebastian Schaffert: I know, KM is rather inconsistent in itself, because knowledge is in peoples' head and
(1H5AAN)
not manageable by technology ... anyways, back to the programme ...
(1H5AAO)
Jack Park: Did anybody suggest earlier that this group "eat its own dogfood" by putting up a semantic wiki to use?
(1H5AAP)
Harold Solbrig: My understanding is that Peter plans to "semanticize" at least some of the ontolog we pages.
(1H5AAS)
DeborahMcGuinness: we could also think of a birds of a feather impromptu meeting at iswc in karlsruhe
(1H5AAT)
Sebastian Schaffert: yes, would give an incentive to come to Karlsruhe after my workshop got rejected
(1H5AAV)
Mike Bennett: Missing windows: There is also what I would call requirements management (of meanigns for data terms)
(1H5AAX)
as a tool in development and systems integration. This fits in with model driven architecture but
(1H5AAY)
without the assumption that everything has to be transformed automatically as some of the MDA folks
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like to think. So basically good systems developemnt where meaning is managed at a semantics level
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rather than in databases and things. Managed by business not techies.
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DeborahMcGuinness: surprising it got rejected... i was just scanning the workshops to see if there was one on this topic
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(2) HCI:navigation of large, high-dimensional knowledge spaces
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(3) more KR issues
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(1) semantic wikis and mashups (how far you are),
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(2) recommendation and personalization in semantic wikis,
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(3) knowledge representation (expresivity vs. simplicity)
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(2) how can semantic wikis support users in their tasks (in contrast to other kinds of technology);
(1H5AAAQ)
(3) how can semantic wikis be integrated with other applications
(1H5AAAR)
(1) Business subject matter experts able to enter, review and validate
(1H5AAAT)
meaningful information without having to learn any new words;
(1H5AAAU)
(2) what dialect of OWL supported;
(1H5AAAV)
(3) What was mentioned about ontology curation is of interest.
(1H5AAAW)
(2) use cases and application ;
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(3) unresolved issues
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(2) content_quality,
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(3) integrating_external_data
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2. utilizing complex document formats in wikis,
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3. closed world vs. open world
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2. semantic wikis as a social collaborative environment for semantically-enabled applications
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(2) do a semantic wiki & OOR session
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(3) showcase the state-of-the-art
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(2) application to education
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(3) integration with other tools (e.g., blogs)
(1H5AAAAT)
Ted Bashor: Wish: (1) develop set of use cases
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(2) ontology management/integration challenges
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(3) linking wiki content to other apps
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(2) survey of semantic wikis for vertical domains (e.g. HCLS)
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(3) semantic wikis for "non-experts"
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Sebastian Schaffert: sebastian, KiWi project and/or IkeWiki, http://wiki.kiwi-project.eu
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official webpage at http://www.kiwi-project.eu currently redesigned but should be ready next week
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Harold Solbrig: Harold Solbrig - "BiomedGT - SMW based ontology federation and curation" http://biomedgt.nci.nih.gov
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Christoph Lange: Christoph, SWiM (currently used at http://wiki.openmath.org , general info at http://kwarc.info/projects/swim/ ),
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will also be concerned w/ argumentative structures in discussions
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Harold Solbrig: Harold Solbrig (Guoquain Jiang) - "ICD-10 Collaborative Revision Platform for the WHO"
(1H5AAAAAI)
http://informatics.mayo.edu/whodev/index.php/Main_Page (password protected, but will be removed shortly)
(1H5AAAAAJ)
DeborahMcGuinness: our main group page includes links to many of the wiki-based applications
(1H5AAAAAK)
DoraiThodla: Dorai Thodla: SemanticWiki Applications - Teaching, Learning, Knowledge Sharing
(1H5AAAAAM)
Peter P. Yim: * input from Mark Musen: I think the emphasis on "semantic wiki's" forces the discussion
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into a small corner. The real matter at hand is the use of Web 2.0 techniques in support
(1H5AAAAAO)
of ontology engineering. Semantic wiki's are a subset of Web 2.0 approaches.
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... At Stanford, we believe that wiki's are much too limiting for scalable ontology development,
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particularly when using OWL. Web Protege casts many of the features of desktop Protege in a
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Web 2.0 framework, and that is where we are focussing our attention.
(1H5AAAAAS)
Sebastian Schaffert: there are two different sides to semantic wikis: semantics for wikis and wikis for semantics
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Harold Solbrig: The challenge is limiting the scope - Semantic Wiki -> Semantic WIki Philosophy -> Web 2.0++ .
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The whole area is interesting, but we have to limit the scope
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Sebastian Schaffert: and most non-Semantic-Web-users really don't care about semantics,
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but they care about better software
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Peter P. Yim: * input from Mark Greaves: This is an area that I am extremely interested in --
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as you know, Vulcan is one of the major funders of Semantic Wiki technology worldwide,
(1H5AAAAAAK)
and we have some very nice software. ... At any rate, please keep me in mind as
(1H5AAAAAAL)
one of the presenters, and we can follow up by email.
(1H5AAAAAAM)
they thought they were philosophically opposed. I think this has since been resolved.
(1H5AAAAAAO)
Denny Vrandecic: Yaron Koren, Semantic Forms and other extensions, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms
(1H5AAAAAAP)
Harold Solbrig: I'd like to see Yaron present on where they are going with Semantic Forms. Yaron?
(1H5AAAAAAQ)
Sebastian Schaffert: Josef Holy, Sun Microsystems, application of Semantic Wikis in software knowledge management
(1H5AAAAAAT)
Harold Solbrig: I'd like to get a good feeling for what Vulcan is doing and the problems they are trying to solve.
(1H5AAAAAAZ)
Christoph Lange: How about Max Voelkel and his topic sem. wikis for _personal_ knowledge mgmt?
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Sebastian Schaffert: blogs are essentially like wikis, just sorted by time that's why I am using the term "wiki philosophy"
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Peter Dolog: integration with other tools is a must in the enterprise context as we also realized in the KIWI project
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Peter P. Yim: if anyone has others to propose, please send the input to anyone of the co-champions or post below within the next 7-days
(1H5AAAAAAAI)
Li Ding: as for blog, Jie bao has implemented a simple blog at http://tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Blog:Baojie
(1H5AAAAAAAK)
Christoph Lange: Sebastian: but i think blogs are used differently, from one blogger to a wide audience
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that may only comment (or run their own blog and link, trackback, etc.)
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Christoph Lange: sebastian: but because of the different use i'd call the philosophy different too -- but, well, no philosophical discussions
(1H5AAAAAAAO)
Li Ding: privacy and access control in semantic wiki is the key to make things like blog flying in Semantic wiki
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Denny Vrandecic: what about someone from wikia? they are giving semantic wikis to about 800,000 potential users...
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Denny Vrandecic: oh wow, that is a topic -- access control in semantic wikis. that is a huge problem for us
(1H5AAAAAAAS)
DoraiThodla: Is there a list of Semantic wiki or something similar to WikiMatrix for SemWikis?
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Christoph Lange: Dorai: there was once some kind of metadata ontology on semanticweb.org, but it's not been used for a long time
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DoraiThodla: Thanks
(1H5AAAAAAAZ)
Sebastian Schaffert: more than 5 seconds of preparation for a closing note would be a good thing
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Sebastian Schaffert: so please accept my apologies for having a wiki-style closing note
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DoraiThodla: Thanks Peter and bye every one.
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Sebastian Schaffert: was very nice to see that the community gets bigger and I hope to gain many insights here
(1H5AAAAAAAAS)
Sebastian Schaffert: nice concept - one needs to get accustomed to it but it works quite well
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Sebastian Schaffert: meaning that this has actually been one of the more productive telcos in my life
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Denny Vrandecic: it fits well in one if you use an IM to connect to the chat instead of the browser
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Yaron Koren: Sorry, will all of these mini-conferences be about ontology engineering?
(1H5AAAAAAAAAH)
Denny Vrandecic: the topics will be gathered now based on the topics we listed before
(1H5AAAAAAAAAJ)
- if you are also doing reasoning this is very much related
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to the topic of reason maintenance
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but some work in the logic programming area
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belief revision techniques for triple store update operations
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it could mean significant performance problems
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Sebastian Schaffert: there is quite some reasoning in IkeWiki from the very beginning
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Sebastian Schaffert: @Jakub: didn't know that, I probably should read your deliverable ...
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Audio archives (mp3) will probably be ready tomorrow.
(1H5AAAAAAAAAAC)
Yaron Koren: BTW, the Ontoprise people are working on access control for SMW (SemanticMediaWiki)
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- if everyone is interested in that, it would be worth talking to them about it.
(1H5AAAAAAAAAAH)
Additional proposed panelists/topic: ... (posted after the 2008.09.18 session)
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PeterYim/2008.09.24: Peter P. Yim, Ken Baclawski et al., Purple MediaWiki Extention (PMWX), http://project.cim3.net/wiki/PMWX
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PeterYim/2008.09.24: Peter P. Yim et al., Migrating the OntologWiki content to Purple Semantic Media Wiki, http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki (prefer to do this towards the end of the mini-series)
(1H5AAAAAAAAAAM)
Peter P. Yim: Adam Cheyer also suggested earlier (2008.09.17): Thomas Tunsch - "National Museums in Berlin: The Semantic Web and Wikis" (ref. his previous talk) - anyone familiar with him or his work?
(1H5AAAAAAAAAAN)
- For those who cannot join us, or who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the "swikig" listserv so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse. (1H6A)
- watch out for announcement of the upcoming events for this mini-series. They will be made on both the [swikig] list and the [ontolog-invitation] list (1H6B)
- the first (kick-off) event will likely be some time in mid-October (2008); and will probably be on a survey of the Semantic Wiki landscape. (1H6C)
- this planning session was adjourned 11:57 am PDT (1H6D)
--
(1H6E)
Attendees are requested to review the notes above, help clean it up, and make amendments and edits to better
(1H6G)
reflect the proceedings of the session as they see fit (particularly where they are personally involved). =ppy
(1H6H)
- the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer. (1I1A)
- Conference Date and Time: 18-Sep-2008 10:38am~11:57am PDT (1I2)
- Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 06 Minutes (1I3)
- Recording File Size: 7.6 MB (in mp3 format) (1I4)
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