Ontology Summit 2010: Community Session-6 - "Final Sync-up (before the Symposium)" - Thu 11-Mar-2010
Ontology Summit 2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future"
- Community Session-6 Topic: "Review and Alignment of Draft Deliverables and Final sync-up prior to the symposium"
- Chair: Dr. Fabian Neuhaus & Professor BarrySmith
- Panelists: (All Track Co-champions)
- Present Ontologist Education: Arturo Sanchez & Antony Galton
- Education & Training Content: Leo Obrst & Michael Grüninger
- Training Requirements: Amanda Vizedom
- Future of Ontology Discipline: Elizabeth Florescu & Peter P. Yim
- Assuring Quality in Education & Training: Barry Smith, Nicola Guarino & Fabian Neuhaus
- Symposium: Steve Ray, Barry Smith
- Communique: Barry Smith, Fabian Neuhaus
Conference Call Details
- Date: Thursday, 11-March-2010
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- Homepage of OntologySummit2010
- Ontology Summit 2010 - Event Calendar
- Ontology Summit 2010 Panel Session-5 "Synthesizing the Community Input" - ConferenceCall_2010_03_04
- Ontology Summit 2010 Panel Session-4 "Template for Ontology Training Programs" - ConferenceCall_2010_02_11
- Ontology Summit 2010 Panel Session-3 "What Are We Training For?" - ConferenceCall_2010_02_04
- Ontology Summit 2010 Panel Session-2 "What's in the Brain of an Ontologist -- The Strawman's Proposal" - ConferenceCall_2010_01_14
- Ontology Summit 2010 Panel Session-1 "Surveying the Landscape & Possibilities" - ConferenceCall_2009_12_17
- Ontology Summit 2010 Launch Event - ConferenceCall_2009_12_10
- Communitywide brainstorming and planning session Ontology Summit 2010 - ConferenceCall_2009_11_05
- Ontology Summit 2010: Key Content Pages
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- Homepage of Ontology Summit 2008 - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2008
- Homepage of Ontology Summit 2007 - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2007
- Homepage of UpperOntologySummit (2006) - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit
Theme: Ontology Summit 2010 - Creating the Ontologists of the Future
This is our 5th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO and IAOA with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future" and was launched on 10-Dec-2009. Like previous years, this Ontology Summit will comprise of three months of virtual discourse, over our archived mailing lists, wiki, and virtual panel sessions (like this one), and will culminate in a 2-day face-to-face workshop/symposium to be held on Mon & Tue, 15 & 16-March-2010 at NIST (Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.)
- Session Topic: Review and Alignment of Draft Deliverables and Final sync-up prior to the symposium
- . Abstract:
- As we are only less than a week from the Mar. 15 & 16 Symposium, this session will be devoted to getting the community ready for that. This session will start with the co-lead editors of our summit communique presenting a draft of that Communique. It will be followed by commentaries from the panel of co-editors, made up of all the Summit Track co-champions.
- The session will then open up to general Q&A and discussion, which will revolve around:
- fine tuning the draft deliverables
- identifying open issues that need to be discussed at length during the symposium, and
- covering all Q&A on logistics or other issues relating to the 2010.03.15 & 16 Symposium at NIST
Agenda & Proceedings
OntologySummit2010 - virtual panel-6 - Topic: "Syntheses on Community Input"
- Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call:
- 1. Opening - chair: Barry Smith / Fabian Neuhaus (5 min.)
- 2. Going over the draft Communique - Fabian Neuhaus & Barry Smith [ see here ] (25 min.)
- 3. Co-editors' commentary - Arturo Sanchez, Antony Galton, Leo Obrst, Michael Grüninger, Amanda Vizedom, Elizabeth Florescu, Peter P. Yim & Nicola Guarino (2~4 min. each)
- 4. Agenda, Ground Rules and Logistics for the 2010.03.15~16 Symposium (15 minutes) Steve Ray & Barry Smith [ see here ]
- 5. Q & A and open discussion on what the community wants to achieve in this Summit (All ~30 min.) -- please refer to process above
- 5.1 discussion revolving around the draft deliverables
- 5.2 identifying open issues that need to be discussed at the symposium
- 5.3 Q&A on any other logistics issue relating to the symposium
- 6. Conclusion / Follow-up - General co-chairs: Barry Smith & Steve Ray
Getting Ready for the Symposium
- see developing session page (agenda and other details) at: OntologySummit2010_Symposium
- The general process (and etiquette):
- New issues for the Ontology Symposium 2010 agenda should be raised prior to the actual meeting, with a deadline of Saturday, March 13, 2010.
- A new issue can be added to the agenda during the Face-To-Face only if at least three participants support the move.
Transcript of the online chat during the session
see raw transcript here.
(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)
Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.
-- begin of chat session --
Peter P. Yim: .
Welcome to the Ontology Summit 2010: Community Session-6 - "Final Sync-up (before the Symposium)" - Thu 11-Mar-2010
Ontology Summit 2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future"
- Community Session-6 Topic: "Review and Alignment of Draft Deliverables and Final sync-up prior to the symposium"
- Panelists: (All Track Co-champions)
o Training Requirements: Amanda Vizedom
Please refer to dial-in, agenda and other details on the session page
anonymous morphed into Simon Spero
anonymous morphed into Amanda Vizedom
Simon Spero: No slides = no need for VNC?
Peter P. Yim: please refer to:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Communique/Draft ... which is being
Peter P. Yim: suggested change .... Barry & Peter ... ref.
the ontolog community ... we should be more inclusive - all organizers, those who endorse the
communique, etc. ...
Peter P. Yim: how about something like: "As next steps, the undersigned (individuals who endorse this
Communique), along with the co-organizers of this Summit, recommend ..."
Steve Ray: For the record - recognize that we have explicit endorsement of recommendations documented
already as "Sponsors" of the Ontology Summit. We can also collect a list of "Communique Endorsers"
as in past years (Peter's suggestion).
Simon Spero: Usual code phrase is "affiliation presented for identification only"
Todd Schneider: General Comment: 0) I think the summary and introduction need to make reference to
the larger area of semantic technologies and how ontology is the vital link.
Todd Schneider: General Comment: 1) Need to include the terms systems, and not just projects.
Steve Ray: Suggest we limit the communique text to interpretations and findings from the surveys,
with links to supplemental pages that will include detailed numbers.
Michelle Raymond: Sentence structure modification - last sentence of paragraph: The 2010 Ontology
Summit community is in general agreement that the most valuable and urgently needed training will be
informed not only by theoretical considerations but also, and centrally, by the needs of ontologists
seeking employment and employers seeking quality, useful ontologists. Our understanding of those
needs, however, has been scattered and divergent. With the aim of improving this understanding,
several discussions, a Panel session, and a survey were undertaken.
Michelle Raymond: Grammar modifications: We wanted to develop a richer and more clear picture of the
requirements of ontologist employability (that is, those trained should be well-prepared for the
available jobs) and deployability (that is, those who hire trained ontologists find them ready and
able to perform the needed work). To that end, we aimed to bring a strong "end-user" voice to the
conversation. Each of our panelists embodied one or more end-user perspectives. Most had some
combination of experience as a working ontologist, an employer, a manager, an evaluator or
on-the-job trainer of ontologists, and a gatherer of lessons learned from full life-cycle ontology
Simon Spero: a separate methodology section
Todd Schneider: I will provide comments to the editors by Monday. I need to join another meeting. See
you next week.
Steve Ray: Suggest we change the heading "What are the requirements for ontologists?" to "What are
the skill requirements for ontologists?" This is to avoid the interpretation of the heading as
meaning something like "Does society have a need for ontologists?"
Rex Brooks: I think that the two paragraphs after 2BLD could be dropped in favor of a link to a
subreport that can focus more on the results of the surveys.
Steve Ray: @Rex: I agree.
Rex Brooks: @Steve: I agree with your previous point as well.
Simon Spero: This is possible cf: http://www.ils.unc.edu/digccurr/
Michelle Raymond: @Amanda: I agree with you statement that noting the state of education available
and the identified education need should be highlighted.
Simon Spero: @Amanda: or... what sort of questions should one ask faculty candidates who would be
teaching in this area
Michelle Raymond: @Amanda: I think it very interesting to note what educators, what those who hire,
and what those who want education desire in training. I don't know that details belong in the
communnique, but do think they should be noted in the summit wiki pages.
Peter P. Yim: Fabian going into the section about Arturo & Antony's section on the communique now ...
Steve Ray: Recommend we add a link to the ACM/IEEE curriculum model, within paragraph (2AXU)
Michelle Raymond: I agree with less detail, more policy in communique. Provide links to other Summit
Peter P. Yim: On the section "What are the expected developments of the future?" I'd like to draw
people's attention to: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Survey#nid28DS ...
and in particular the "Study Results" section at the end of that section The links for reference are
available there; I would defer to the lead editors to pare down this whole section
Peter P. Yim: the section (as written now) is also available, and can be linked to at:
Amanda Vizedom: @Simon - I'm glad you mentioned this. I wanted to make the recommendation, following
the description of how the survey was distributed (abbreviated here, will be extended on the
Requirements Synthesis page -
new, long-running survey (or other collection mechanism) be stood up...
Simon Spero: @Steve - the [[DigCCur]] program is IMLS funded research to develop a curriculum for
Simon Spero: Ontology could be similar
Rex Brooks: I think the summary is fine as it is. I do think we need some conclusions, such as saying
that education budgets for ontologist need to be increased because there are needs going wanting
Simon Spero: Should be something suitable for Chronicle/THES
Amanda Vizedom: ... It's clear that the short time of the survey, along with the trial & error method
of soliciting input more broadly, limited the quantity and diversity of input. We got great input,
including some from outside the current Ontolog community, but it has clear limitations. You point
to an example: there are clearly activities and organizations that are relevant but not represented.
A longer-running survey would have a better chance of making its way into more and other
communities, and to draw input from them. In addition, the Survey Monkey mechanism was very useful
but also limited. We might look to Digcurr for ideas and tools, and we certainly could use the first
round findings and lessons to improve the content.
Rex Brooks: It would be acceptable to me if we gave the chart as an example of the survey results we
Simon Spero: "What do Digital Curators do and What do They Need to Know?" -- feel free to substitute
Steve Ray: @Simon: I'm confused by your references to digital curators, and your earlier link to
digccurr. How is this related to training of ontologists?
Simon Spero: @SteveRay: it's an IMLS funded study of how to develop a curriculum for the digital
archivists on the future; this is similar
Rex Brooks: @Simon: is this related to the CIDOC Conceptual Reference Model-an RDFSchema that could
and should eventually be upgraded to a full-blown ontology?
Simon Spero: @Rex: it's a bit more meta
Simon Spero: (though I did owl an earlier CIDOC)
Rex Brooks: @Simon: thanks. I'll look at it.
Simon Spero: There's been a split between Computer Science and Information/Library Science that a
lot of this falls into the middle zone
Rex Brooks: @Simon: Do you have a url to your earlier OWL CIDOC?
Simon Spero: @Rex: I can't remember where I stashed it. It was during a very boring conference
session, with no wireless. They did have one online
Rex Brooks: @Simon: I'll look for it.
Steve Ray: @Simon: OK, the similarity is that the IMLS study was to develop a curriculum (in a
Simon Spero: @SteveRay: Right
Simon Spero: @SteveRay: just as digital curation has links to the past of archiving and other
Simon Spero: @SteveRay: ontology has links to the past of information & knowledge organization
Simon Spero: @Pavithra they're two related things
Simon Spero: There are some core skills
Simon Spero: There are some skills that are core to some subareas
Simon Spero: I think you need some logic
Simon Spero: Information organization
Simon Spero: iSchool stuff
Simon Spero: To implement a peta-scale triple store, you need one set of skills
Simon Spero: To design a cognitively useful organization of knowledge you need another
Amanda Vizedom: @Fabian: I suggest a third track - a kind of knowledge manager, perhaps (in normative
and non-normative flavors).
Amanda Vizedom: To document some of what I just said: I think that there is a third identifiable
cluster, to which I belong. It isn't traditional software engineering, in that its practitioners may
not have traditional IT interests or primary skills (though we have to develop some of them) and are
focused on the human belief and decision systems of which the IT is a part. It doesn't fit the
community-focused cluster, as described, because it need not be domain-specific. In fact, to me the
good stuff is cross-domain, and (adding to what I said) it may be the case that much of the demand
is going to be cross-domain, in that it is driven by interoperability, transparency, and such (be it
cross-functional or Linked Open Data!).
Simon Spero: Right
Simon Spero: A core and a small number of specialty tracks
Michelle Raymond: @Amanda: I wonder if the important characteristics of cross-domain ontologist, are
intrinsic to being a "good"-ontologist. I'm not coming up with a unique skill I use in cross-domain
ontology development/analysis that aren't a part of "good"-ontology development/analysis. The beyond
ontology skills are the same: software engineering and human relations skills. I think I would pull
out domain knowledge all together.
Simon Spero: @Michelle: We've had debates about this within my cohort; what is it useful for
non-tologists to know about ontology
Michelle Raymond: OK, I recind my domain knowledge comment. Domain knowledge is relevant as
understanding terminology within a domain. Domain knowledge is relevant as understanding how
information is commonly structured within a domain. These are value-adds.
Rex Brooks: @Amanda: Yes, we need to understand the cross-domain applications/training is important.
It's not an absolute requirement like the core, but it is very important when we need ontologists
who understand formal logic and can apply it to making ontologically accurate calculations for
policy enforcement points in routing, for instance. That crosses the human-machine communities since
it is human social structures that define policies and need to put them in storage systems that can
be accessed for policy enforcement.
Simon Spero: @Amanda: what's not being taught ?
Simon Spero: cf: http://ils.unc.edu/digccurr/digccurr-matrix.html
Simon Spero: also: http://ils.unc.edu/digccurr/digccurr-funct-categories.pdf
Amanda Vizedom: Another observation (made on phone): The survey did produce unexpected results, and
these are helpful to curriculum developers. To the extent that we want to refine our understanding
of needs and clusters thereof, and to keep that current as the field develops, it would be useful to
have a long-running, more sophisticated collection mechanism.
Simon Spero: @Amanda good point
Peter P. Yim: @Fabian & Barry - we still need an ending - ref.
Simon Spero: Should there be a list of what you need to know to do certain jobs
Simon Spero: that are classes as onto
Amanda Vizedom: @Simon - I don't think we're that far along as a field. But that is something toward
which we should move. Ontologists should be able to assess what training they need. And, with great
emphasis, if those with positions to fill had something to work with, such that they might be able
to actually identify some of the job requirements and hire appropriate people, that would be a major
Amanda Vizedom: Noting action item for me: Move detail to Requirements Synthesis page. Cover only
interesting, interpreted results.
Rex Brooks: I have to sign off now, and I just want to thank you all for the great effort!
Simon Spero: Note: the registration according to NIST closes today, not tuesday
Simon Spero: expectations?
Michelle Raymond: I've got to sign off. All - enjoy the face-to-face meeting.
Steve Ray: Steve: amend Monday morning agenda
Simon Spero: I want a full set of syllabi ready
Peter P. Yim: suggestions for F2F discussion: Michael, Barry / Peter et al. ... (a) strategic action and
follow-ups, (b) next level of details in curricula, (c) what can we do at FOIS to continue the
Peter P. Yim: -- session ended 12:21pm PST --
-- end of chat session --
- ... More Questions
- For those who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the "ontology-summit" list so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse ... see the next section (below) on how you can participate, if you aren't already a member of the community.)
An Open Invitation
If you do find this initiative interesting or useful, we cordially invite you to join us in the "Ontology Summit 2010" virtual discourse that will be taking place in the next 3 months or so, and to the face-to-face workshop that will be held on 15 & 16-March-2010 as part of the NIST Interoperability Week in Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.
- Registration for the 2010.03.15~16 (remote participation) Workshop / Symposium is still open (registration for on-site attendance has already closed) - Join us! ... Note: No fees ... see: OntologySummit2010/WorkshopRegistration
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- Conference Date and Time: 11-Mar-2010 10:38am ~ 12:21pm Pacific Standard Time
- Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 39 Minutes
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