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OntologyBasedStandards miniseries session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17     (1)

Session Co-chairs: Dr. Gary Berg-Cross (SOCoP) & Dr. Tara Athan (Athan Services) ... intro slides     (1A)

Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues     (1B)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1C)

  • Dr. LuisBermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web" slides     (1D)
  • Dr. SimonCox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)" - slides     (1E)
  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) (in absentia) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan) - slides     (1F)
  • Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology" - slides     (1G)

  • Dial-in:     (1I4)
    • Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... (long distance cost may apply)     (1I4A)
    • Skype: joinconference (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... ref.)     (1I4B)
      • when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1I4B1)
      • Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...     (1I4B2)
        • Add the contact "joinconference" to your skype contact list first. To participate in the teleconference, make a skype call to "joinconference", then open the dial pad (see platform-specific instructions below) and enter the Conference ID: 141184# when prompted.     (1I4B2A)
      • Can't find Skype Dial pad? ...     (1I4B3)
        • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1I4B3A)
        • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... (ref.)     (1I4B3B)
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/     (1I5)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1I5A)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1I5B)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1I5C)
    • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").     (1I6A)
    • You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1I6B)
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20131017@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1I6C)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1I7)
    • Nominally, when a presentation is in progress, the moderator will mute everyone, except for the speaker.     (1I7A)
    • To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6" (please mute your phone, especially if you are in a noisy surrounding, or if you are introducing noise, echoes, etc. into the conference line.)     (1I7B)
    • we will usually save all questions and discussions till after all presentations are through. You are encouraged to jot down questions onto the chat-area in the mean time (that way, they get documented; and you might even get some answers in the interim, through the chat.)     (1I7C)
    • During the Q&A / discussion segment (when everyone is muted), If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please raise your hand (virtually) by clicking on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the session moderator (again, press "*7" on your phone to un-mute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*6" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1I7D)
  • RSVP to peter.yim@cim3.com appreciated, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)     (1I9)
  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1I11)

Attendees     (1J)

  • Expecting:     (1J2)
    • (please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)     (1J2B)

Abstract     (1K)

Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues - overview slides     (1K1)

As with the recent session-4 (The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard��) this is a continuation of the��OntologyBasedStandards��mini-series that was started in late 2012 as a joint venture of OASIS,��OMG, various��ISO��working groups,��IAOA,��OOR�� and ONTOLOG. This session, is part of a��program of 8 topics��which are planned to be held over the remaining time in 2013, and partly in 2014.     (1K2)

We are over 10 years from Smith and Mark��s Geographical Categories: An Ontological Investigation �� one of top 10 cited articles in the geospatial (GS) field. Many technical geospatial standards exist and there is increasing intersection of the GS technical community and the ontological and semantic technology communities. Still many geospatial data & web feature services have standardized terms but lack adequate semantics. Some of the concepts in need of improved semantics, such as quantity and observation, are not specific to the GS domain. This session explores some efforts to reduce the ambiguities in GS definitions, as well as the interrelationships of concepts across GS and related domains. The session builds on work coming out of standards bodies like the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC), but also looks to progress on ontologies such as started on the W3C Geospatial Incubator Group which defined seven categories of Geospatial Ontologies:     (1K3)

Notable also was the benchmark survey of the GS ontology landscape (= Geospatial Ontology Trade Study) conducted in 2007 which reviewed spatial conceptualization in foundational and upper level ontologies but also concepts in domain and commercial standards (e.g. the Geography Markup Language GML) as well as spatial ontologies that are embedded in other ontologies such as SWEET. Several of the GS ontologies discussed in the trade study have been made available in the SOCoP OOR as part of NSF��s funding of the SOCoP INTEROP effort.     (1K11)

Another notable development has been the formalization of GeoSPARQL which was presented previously in the SOCoP Virtual Workshop on Semantics in Geospatial and Other Architectures: Design and Implementation (2013-05-07).     (1K12)

For our session today, we have invited presentations by people involved in the geospatial arena and with standards. Following a very brief overview, they will each present for about 20 minutes on their areas of work and interest. This will be followed by Q & A and an open discussion of issues.     (1K13)

For more detail on the mini-series please also refer to details on the��OntologyBasedStandards��mini-series homepage.     (1K14)

Briefings     (1K15)

Abstract: ... This talk provides information about Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) activities related to the Semantic Web and gaps. It will highlight work done by OGC subcommittees, working groups and projects of the Interoperability Program. All these activities are using technologies that will allow better capturing and sharing rich semantics in OGC Geospatial standards. The talk will provide details about GeoSPARQL and OGC URIs. Finally, it will provide some information about ideas for future work, including UML to OWL activities.     (1K15B1)
Abstract: ... We have developed OWL ontologies for the ISO/OGC model for Observations, and for other standard geographic information schemas (geometry, time, metadata) upon which it depends. Translation from the original UML to OWL follows the ISO 19150-2 rules. The ontologies have been prepared standalone, to respect the ��upper ontology�� implied by the ISO UML profile and ISO General Feature Model, and thus avoid introducing external bias. Mapping to other ontologies, such as the SSN ontology, can be done subsequently in RDFS and OWL axioms, and maintained as linksets separate from the structure model. A key issue is whether the OWL representation should exactly reproduce the frame-based UML model from the standard, or be an open-world OWL representation of some underlying model. This affects property scoping and object property restrictions. The latter choice requires more interpretation during conversion. Two incompatible ontologies have been developed through following both approaches.     (1K15D1)
The ISO-based ontology and SSN ontology are almost equally expressive. However, in the SSN ontology alignment with DOLCE is achieved by putting the Observation class in the DUL:SocialObject hierarchy, whereas in O&M it is conceived of as an ��Event��.     (1K15D2)
  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan) - slides     (1K15F)
Abstract: ... The W3C Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group published its final report in 2011. One of two main objectives of the group was "to develop of an ontology to describe sensors and sensor networks," and this objective was met with the ontology presented in the final report, with online documentation at the link below. The ontology is domain independent and comprehensive, merging sensor-focused, observation-focused and system-focused views. It is intended to be used in conjunction with domain-specific ontologies as well as ontologies of measurement, time, location and mobility. It is aligned with the DOLCE Ultra Lite upper ontology, and is backward-compatible with the OGC's Sensor Web Enablement (SWE) standard.     (1K15G1)
  • Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology" - slides     (1K15I)
Abstract: ... The terms specified in currently available geospatial standards (and spatial standards in general) largely lack full semantic formalizations. However, subtle differences abound in the spatial domain, thus it is especially important to formally state what the concepts and relations mean.     (1K15J1)
In this talk, I will outline how spatial standards can be improved by grounding terms in first-order axiomatizations. While I will use examples from hydro ontology, much of the work generalizes to other geospatial domains and beyond, as demonstrated by ongoing work in anatomy.     (1K15J2)

Agenda     (1L)

OntologyBasedStandards Mini-series Panel Session-05     (1L1)

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call     (1L2)

Proceedings     (1M)

Please refer to the above     (1M1)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session    (1M2)

see raw transcript here.     (1M2A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1M2B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1M2C)

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --     (1M2D)


Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017     (1M2E)

2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT]     (1M2F)


[9:13] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the     (1M2G)

OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17     (1M2H)

Session Co-chair: Dr. GaryBergCross (SOCoP) & Dr. Tara Athan (Athan Services)     (1M2I)

Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues     (1M2J)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1M2K)

  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan)     (1M2N)

Logistics:     (1M2P)

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName     (1M2R)

(as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)     (1M2W)

Proceedings     (1M2AC)

[8:58] anonymous morphed into Ola Ahlqvist     (1M2AD)

[9:19] anonymous morphed into Bruce Simons     (1M2AE)

[9:19] Peter P. Yim: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people     (1M2AF)

from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference"     (1M2AG)

is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or     (1M2AH)

google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1M2AI)

[9:20] Peter P. Yim: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it     (1M2AJ)

indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)     (1M2AK)

[9:20] Peter P. Yim: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia,     (1M2AL)

[9:22] GaryBergCross: Hello all.     (1M2AN)

[9:26] anonymous morphed into Luis Bermudez     (1M2AO)

[9:27] Luis Bermudez: Hi everyone     (1M2AP)

[9:30] Simon Cox: Is my chat coming through now?     (1M2AQ)

[9:31] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - Yes     (1M2AR)

[9:30] anonymous morphed into Torsten Hahmann     (1M2AS)

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Ram D. Sriram     (1M2AT)

[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into Bobbin Teegarden     (1M2AU)

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Francesca Quattri     (1M2AV)

[9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou     (1M2AW)

[9:37] anonymous1 morphed into CeciliaDiSciascio     (1M2AX)

[9:37] Alex Shkotin: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-)     (1M2AY)

[9:38] anonymous morphed into Todd Pehle     (1M2AZ)

[9:41] Simon Cox: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK     (1M2AAA)

[9:42] Peter P. Yim: great ... thanks, Simon     (1M2AAB)

[9:45] Richard Martin: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time?     (1M2AAC)

[9:47] Peter P. Yim: @RichardMartin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings"     (1M2AAD)

(top center of window) helps     (1M2AAE)

[9:40] Peter P. Yim: == GaryBergCross & Tara Athan started the session ... please bring up slides under:     (1M2AAF)

[9:44] anonymous morphed into DeborahMacPherson     (1M2AAH)

[9:47] Amanda Vizedom: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category     (1M2AAI)

work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different,     (1M2AAJ)

however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in     (1M2AAK)

semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain?     (1M2AAL)

[9:51] GaryBergCross: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and     (1M2AAM)

different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of     (1M2AAN)

this in the talks starting with Luis....     (1M2AAO)

[9:47] anonymous morphed into Nelcy Pina     (1M2AAP)

[9:48] Peter P. Yim: == Luis Bermudez presenting ...     (1M2AAQ)

[9:52] anonymous morphed into Richard Martin     (1M2AAR)

[10:05] GaryBergCross: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations.     (1M2AAS)

[10:11] DeborahMacPherson: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks     (1M2AAT)

[10:18] Luis Bermudez: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here:     (1M2AAU)

[10:10] Peter P. Yim: == Simon Cox presenting ...     (1M2AAW)

[10:14] GaryBergCross: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30.     (1M2AAX)

[10:21] GaryBergCross: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing.     (1M2AAY)

--[10:22] Harold Boley: Voice connection broken!     (1M2AAZ)

--[10:22] Tara Athan: Simon, we can't hear you.     (1M2AAAA)

--[10:22] Peter P. Yim: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in     (1M2AAAC)

--[10:23] Harold Boley: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point?     (1M2AAAD)

--[10:24] Bruce Simons: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question if anyone sees Simon Cox on skype] I do     (1M2AAAE)

--[10:24] Bruce Simons: I have tried skyping him     (1M2AAAG)

--[10:25] Harold Boley: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on.     (1M2AAAH)

--[10:25] Simon Cox: I'm back now     (1M2AAAI)

--[10:27] Peter P. Yim: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - great, thank you!     (1M2AAAJ)

--[10:26] Harold Boley: we were at the ISO 19150-2 (2015?) slide (slide #7)     (1M2AAAK)

[10:24] anonymous morphed into Josh Lieberman     (1M2AAAL)

[10:30] anonymous morphed into Nikkia Anderson     (1M2AAAM)

[10:27] Luis Bermudez: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and SimonCox.     (1M2AAAN)

It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago:     (1M2AAAO)

[10:32] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL     (1M2AAAQ)

mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then     (1M2AAAR)

generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these     (1M2AAAS)

issues are still very much live.     (1M2AAAT)

[10:39] Josh Lieberman: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the     (1M2AAAU)

widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe.     (1M2AAAV)

[10:40] GaryBergCross: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee.     (1M2AAAW)

[10:40] Peter P. Yim: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ...     (1M2AAAX)

[10:41] Simon Cox: [responding to TaraAthan's remark that CoryHenderson cannot be with us today, and     (1M2AAAY)

therefore she is presenting Cory's work] I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next     (1M2AAAZ)

week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions!     (1M2AAAAA)

[10:41] Simon Cox: Maybe he's travelling now ...     (1M2AAAAB)

[10:42] GaryBergCross: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up at this time slot.     (1M2AAAAC)

[10:43] Simon Cox: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user-     (1M2AAAAD)

(observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to SensorML,     (1M2AAAAE)

consumer-centric motivated O&M     (1M2AAAAF)

--[10:45] Simon Cox: Now we lost Tara?     (1M2AAAAG)

--[10:46] Francesca Quattri: Tara, we cannot hear you     (1M2AAAAH)

--[10:46] Peter P. Yim: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment     (1M2AAAAI)

--[10:46] Tara Athan: I'll try to reconnect     (1M2AAAAJ)

--[10:47] Tara Athan: skype froze on me     (1M2AAAAL)

--[10:47] Peter P. Yim: take your time, Tara     (1M2AAAAM)

--[10:50] Tara Athan: I'm back now, calling in from my landline     (1M2AAAAN)

[10:50] Nelcy Pina: Sorry, I cannot see the slides...     (1M2AAAAO)

[10:51] Nelcy Pina: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :(     (1M2AAAAP)

[10:52] Nelcy Pina: let me see ...     (1M2AAAAQ)

[10:59] Nelcy Pina: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox     (1M2AAAAR)

[10:52] Peter P. Yim: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the     (1M2AAAAS)

slides and run them on your own machine locally     (1M2AAAAT)

[10:47] Amanda Vizedom: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that     (1M2AAAAU)

way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social     (1M2AAAAV)

means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and     (1M2AAAAW)

typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in     (1M2AAAAX)

epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way.     (1M2AAAAY)

[10:48] Simon Cox: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation.     (1M2AAAAZ)

[10:49] Simon Cox: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context     (1M2AAAAAA)

[10:49] Amanda Vizedom: @JoshLieberman - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either     (1M2AAAAAB)

way has special areas of emphasis and dilution.     (1M2AAAAAC)

[10:50] Simon Cox: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question on where one can find the owl     (1M2AAAAAD)

axiomatization of the various ontologies mentioned in the preseentation] Start here:     (1M2AAAAAE)

[10:50] Simon Cox: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not     (1M2AAAAAG)

be for a couple of years :-( (     (1M2AAAAAH)

should get the lot     (1M2AAAAAJ)

[10:51] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical     (1M2AAAAAK)

concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a     (1M2AAAAAL)

particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement.     (1M2AAAAAM)

measurement) - this is a challenge:-)     (1M2AAAAAN)


[10:53] Simon Cox: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server     (1M2AAAAAO)

so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a     (1M2AAAAAP)

surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ...     (1M2AAAAAQ)

[10:56] Simon Cox: SensorML, and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems     (1M2AAAAAR)

[10:56] Simon Cox: (SensorML is OGC standard)     (1M2AAAAAS)

[10:57] Simon Cox: @Tara - perhaps this one:     (1M2AAAAAT)

[10:59] Simon Cox: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support     (1M2AAAAAV)

provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model     (1M2AAAAAW)

[11:01] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: SSN class </Users/taraathan/Downloads/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--[[CoryHenson_SSN]]-subset-TA_20131017.pdf (is subclass of) DUL class Deployment < Process(DUL) SensorOutput < InformationObject Observation < Situation Device < DesignedArtifact System, Sensor, Platform < PhysicalObject SensorInput < Event Process(SSN) < Method [[FeatureOfInterest]] < Event or Object Property < Quality ObservationValue < Region (a region in a dimensional space which can be used as a value for a quality of an Entity e.g. TimeInterval, SpaceRegion, PhysicalAttribute, Amount, . . .)     (1M2AAAAAX)

--[11:03] Bruce Simons: Has the conference call failed or just me?     (1M2AAAAAZ)

--[11:03] Tara Athan: just you     (1M2AAAAAAA)

--[11:03] Josh Lieberman: Still going on.     (1M2AAAAAAB)

--[11:04] Peter P. Yim: sorry Bruce Simons, please dial back in again     (1M2AAAAAAC)

--[11:05] Simon Cox: (@Bruce - skype can't see you, maybe restart skype)     (1M2AAAAAAD)

--[11:05] Bruce Simons: @Peter Back in     (1M2AAAAAAE)

--[11:06] Peter P. Yim: @BruceSimons - great!     (1M2AAAAAAF)

[11:05] Amanda Vizedom: @TorstenHahmann +1 on the lesser emphasis on relationships.     (1M2AAAAAAG)

[11:13] Tara Athan: how is "water" defined- does it include dissolved substances?     (1M2AAAAAAH)

suspended particles? fish?     (1M2AAAAAAI)

[11:13] Simon Cox: Crocodiles?     (1M2AAAAAAJ)

[11:13] GaryBergCross: With whatever time we have for discussion presenters may have a chance for     (1M2AAAAAAK)

discussing of each other's ideas.     (1M2AAAAAAL)

[11:14] Mike Bennett: Crocodile-infested water is surely a sub class of water, with a restriction on     (1M2AAAAAAM)

the property "infestedBy"?     (1M2AAAAAAN)

[11:14] DeborahMacPherson: Need to take off - thanks for the interesting presentations!     (1M2AAAAAAO)

[11:14] GaryBergCross: @tara there may be bio, geo and chemical constituents of a water body.     (1M2AAAAAAP)

[11:15] Tara Athan: @gary - thx     (1M2AAAAAAQ)

[11:16] Luis Bermudez: @SimonCox @TaraAthan - One issue with the SSN and the OM model is that SSN     (1M2AAAAAAR)

doesn't treat Sensor as a subclass of Process (in O&M called Procedure). In SSN a Sensor can     (1M2AAAAAAS)

implement some Sensing, and Sensing is sub class of Process, but I don't see this as a big issue.     (1M2AAAAAAT)

[11:16] Amanda Vizedom: Presumably, and noting the particular wording on slide 10, any of those     (1M2AAAAAAU)

things could be *in* the water body, but they would not be *constituents* of the water body.     (1M2AAAAAAV)

[11:17] GaryBergCross: Reminder the free Nov 18-19 SOCoP workshop page is at     (1M2AAAAAAW)

http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDC2013. Please come...this means you Amanda and Josh.     (1M2AAAAAAX)

[11:17] Amanda Vizedom: Noted, Gary. Will email you about that.     (1M2AAAAAAY)

[11:18] Simon Cox: SSN and O&M are each self-consciously domain-neutral     (1M2AAAAAAZ)

[11:19] Simon Cox: Thanks @Amanda - Crocodiles may be constituents of water-body, but not of water     (1M2AAAAAAAA)

[11:19] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - Thereby supporting documentation of hydrological samples and     (1M2AAAAAAAB)

measurement of the ppm of crocodiles.     (1M2AAAAAAAC)

[11:20] Mike Bennett: Good insight. infestedBy and similar properties would be properties of     (1M2AAAAAAAE)

WaterBody not of Water as such.     (1M2AAAAAAAF)

[11:20] Alex Shkotin: @Torsten, you are on the way to build axiomatic theory of hydrology!     (1M2AAAAAAAG)

[11:21] Peter P. Yim: == Open Discussion ...     (1M2AAAAAAAH)

--[11:23] Simon Cox: Can't hear Luis     (1M2AAAAAAAI)

--[11:23] Tara Athan: audio problems     (1M2AAAAAAAJ)

--[11:23] GaryBergCross: a pulsing sound on the audio.     (1M2AAAAAAAK)

--[11:24] Luis Bermudez: Having problems with skype     (1M2AAAAAAAL)

--[11:24] GaryBergCross: Luis - can you type your point in??     (1M2AAAAAAAM)

--[11:24] Nelcy Pina: please type here @LuisBermudez     (1M2AAAAAAAN)

[11:24] Torsten Hahmann: yes, infestedBy crocodiles would be a property of a WaterBody, not of the water     (1M2AAAAAAAO)

(which may flow further downstream to a not-infested water body)     (1M2AAAAAAAP)

[11:25] Simon Cox: Are - distinguish between solution and suspension!     (1M2AAAAAAAQ)

[11:26] Mike Bennett: ... and colloid (to complete the set)     (1M2AAAAAAAR)

[11:26] Simon Cox: We'll be getting into colloids next!     (1M2AAAAAAAS)

[11:26] Francesca Quattri: Thank you to the Speakers. Looking forward to the next session.     (1M2AAAAAAAU)

[11:27] Simon Cox: Hmmm. Ontology begat chemistry / vv     (1M2AAAAAAAV)

[11:28] Amanda Vizedom: I believe that those sorts of chemistry distinctions have been formalized...     (1M2AAAAAAAW)

now I need to find a link to back that up...     (1M2AAAAAAAX)

[11:28] Simon Cox: Josh - observing vs reasoning. Some science involves more of the latter (e.g. geology)     (1M2AAAAAAAY)

[11:29] Alex Shkotin: @Torsten, maybe we should speak about ecological system in hydrology.     (1M2AAAAAAAZ)

[11:29] Simon Cox: sensing vs. reasoning     (1M2AAAAAAAAA)

[11:26] Luis Bermudez: @Torsten, How far do you think OGC should go standardizing Geospatial Ontologies?     (1M2AAAAAAAAB)

[11:29] Torsten Hahmann: @Luis: good question. I think being able to verify the consistency of the standards     (1M2AAAAAAAAC)

would be a reasonable goal. Of course, it is probably out of scope to formalize all kinds of geographic toponyms     (1M2AAAAAAAAD)

[11:29] Josh Lieberman: I might think of it more as established versus contingent processing of a measurement.     (1M2AAAAAAAAE)

[11:30] Luis Bermudez: @Torsten thank you will follow up with you later about what you mean by "consistency of standards"     (1M2AAAAAAAAF)

[11:31] Torsten Hahmann: @Luis: sure, would be happy to discuss it in more detail     (1M2AAAAAAAAG)

[11:34] GaryBergCross: @Torsten I agree that it can go both ways and does, but perhaps standard     (1M2AAAAAAAAH)

bodies need to support the heavy work.     (1M2AAAAAAAAI)

[11:35] Luis Bermudez: @Gary et al. I lost my audio     (1M2AAAAAAAAJ)

[11:36] GaryBergCross: @Simon - good point to put on record the crisis of geospatial standards because of limitations     (1M2AAAAAAAAK)

[11:42] Simon Cox: @Gary - I mentioned 'crisis' in standards - adoption lags development, which lags     (1M2AAAAAAAAL)

design, by years or decades.     (1M2AAAAAAAAM)

[11:43] Simon Cox: We already know that OGC interface standards are out of date, yet institutions are     (1M2AAAAAAAAN)

only now adopting and deploying     (1M2AAAAAAAAO)

[11:43] Simon Cox: There are some thing which will endure however: mostly information side (models)     (1M2AAAAAAAAP)

[11:38] Alex Shkotin: Standards should use CNL first of all - like ACE;-) It's a step to formalization:-)     (1M2AAAAAAAAQ)

[11:39] Alex Shkotin: Controlled Natural Language     (1M2AAAAAAAAS)

[11:40] Simon Cox: But they are already committed to UML, and have big corpus ...     (1M2AAAAAAAAT)

[11:41] Alex Shkotin: @Simon, then we need converter from UML to CNL;-)     (1M2AAAAAAAAU)

[11:41] GaryBergCross: @Alex CNL yes +1.     (1M2AAAAAAAAV)

[11:42] GaryBergCross: John F. Sowa made some efforts to describe a CNL for Common Logic.     (1M2AAAAAAAAW)

[11:43] Alex Shkotin: We convert our petrology DB to ACE manually:-(     (1M2AAAAAAAAX)

[11:43] Alex Shkotin: @Gary, this is a trend CNL - FOL:-)     (1M2AAAAAAAAY)

[11:38] GaryBergCross: Simon's observations are similar to what Bill McCarthy presented: Tension     (1M2AAAAAAAAZ)

between a theoretical ontology community and a standards community.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAA)

[11:40] Mike Bennett: @Gary that's something I think Bill and I will pick up on in our session.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAB)

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: ... we have a really distributed participation today ... quite a number of     (1M2AAAAAAAAAC)

countries are represented here: I can recognize (at least) folks from Australia (Melbourne and Sydney),     (1M2AAAAAAAAAD)

Canada, China (Hong Kong), Germany, Romania, Russia, United Kingdom, United States and Venezuela     (1M2AAAAAAAAAE)

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: To get involved in the OntologyBasedStandards dialog, please subscribe yourself to     (1M2AAAAAAAAAF)

the [ontology-based-standards] list, if you haven't already -     (1M2AAAAAAAAAG)

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-24) for the RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch     (1M2AAAAAAAAAI)

Event - co-chairs: Leo Obrst & Benjamin Grosof - ref. developing session details at:     (1M2AAAAAAAAAJ)

[11:40] GaryBergCross: Thank you all. we could have had 2 sessions on this. I hope the conversation     (1M2AAAAAAAAAL)

continues in the Ontolog and SOCoP forums.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAM)

[11:40] Josh Lieberman: Thanks Gary and Tara for organizing.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAN)

[11:40] Simon Cox: How fast can retrofit happen?     (1M2AAAAAAAAAO)

[11:40] Alex Shkotin: Thank you all:-)     (1M2AAAAAAAAAP)

[11:41] GaryBergCross: Thanks again Simon....it was great to have you on.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAQ)

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: sorry about the connection problems today! (I'll clean that up in the recording)     (1M2AAAAAAAAAR)

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: great session! thanks everyone ...     (1M2AAAAAAAAAS)

[11:41] Tara Athan: Thanks to the speakers, and also the attendees for some great questions.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAT)

[11:44] Simon Cox: Time for shower/breakfast     (1M2AAAAAAAAAU)

[11:44] Alex Shkotin: Time to sleep:-)     (1M2AAAAAAAAAW)

[11:45] GaryBergCross: have a good day ..or night... bye     (1M2AAAAAAAAAY)

[11:47] Nelcy Pina: thanks for the session! :)     (1M2AAAAAAAAAZ)

[11:48] Nelcy Pina: But I feel that a meeting like this is not complete...     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAA)

[11:49] Nelcy Pina: We could be in touch to comment after the session     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAB)

[11:51] Nelcy Pina: but I know its difficult I have not had lunch yet and for @AlexShkotin it's time to sleep     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAC)

[11:51] Peter P. Yim: @NelcyPina - the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list is available for that, if     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAD)

you haven't already joined - please consider subscribing to it at:     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAE)

to have an asynchronous conversation     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAG)

[11:55] Peter P. Yim: closing the chat-room now! Bye, everyone!     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAI)

[11:56] Luis Bermudez: Bye. Thank you     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAK)

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:40am PDT --     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAL)

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAM)

  • Additional Community Input     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAN)
    • Kiyong Lee / 2013.10.15: ... want to let you know that ISO/TC 37/SC 4/WG 2 has been developing CD 24617-7 Language resource management - Semantic annotation framework - Part 7: Spatial information (Project leader: James Pustejovsky, convenor: KiyongLee). It was just approved to move on the so-called DIS (draft international standard) stage. It not only deals with topological information, but also motions, paths, etc, going beyond the work of MITRE's SpatialML. A couple of years ago when we started this project, our working group had a joint meeting with geospatial experts, so I think our ISO work may also be related to your various works.     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAN1)
      • Kiyong Lee / 2013.10.15: [... further, in regard to James' spatial annotation work, you might want to check out his website at Brandeis, and] the book James Pustejovsky and Inderjeet Mani co-authored, entitled Interpreting Motion: Grounded Representations for Spatial Language, Oxford U Press, 2012, and a review appears in Computational Linguistics, June 2013, vol. 39, no. 2, pages 455-457     (1M2AAAAAAAAAAN1A)

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