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Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion: "CL Support for OOR" - Fri 10-Sep-2010     (1)

  • Panelists:     (1C)
    • Professor JohnBateman and Dr. habil. TillMossakowski (Bremen U) - "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)" - [ slides ] . [ demo-video-clip ]     (1C1)
    • Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) - "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project" - [ slides ]     (1C2)
    • Mr. CameronRoss (Kojeware) - "An OOR Implementation for COLORE" - [ slides ]     (1C3)
    • Mr. AdamPease (Articulate Software) - "Sigma as an OOR" - [ slides ]     (1C4)
    • Dr. PatHayes - some comments on work presented at this session     (1C5)

  • Shared-screen support (VNC session) will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/     (1E5)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1E5A)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1E5B)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1E5C)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1E6)
    • (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"     (1E6A)
    • You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based chat session by:     (1E6B)
      • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1E6C1)
    • (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1E6D)
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20100910@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1E6E)
  • Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1E10)

Attendees     (1G)

Resources     (1G5)

Agenda & Proceedings     (1H)

Session: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR" Panel Discussion     (1H1)

Abstracts     (1I)

Abstract: ... this session will be devoted to exploring the various alternatives available to provide Common Logic (ISO/IEC 24707) support for the Open Ontology Repository (OOR) initiative.     (1I2A)

Panel Member Talks     (1I3)

Abstract: ... The Heterogeneous Tool Set (Hets) is a multi-logic parsing, analysis     (1I3B1)

and proof tool. The logics covered by Hets include propositional logic (with SAT solvers minisat and zChaff), OWL (with provers Pellet and FACT++), first-order logic (with provers SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe), and higher-order logic (with prover Isabelle). Recently, we have added Common Logic to Hets, offering both parsing and proof tools for Common Logic. SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe are available for proofs in Common Logic, as well as Isabelle (if induction on lists is needed). Moreover, a translation from OWL into Common Logic is provided. Last but not least, the language HetCASL provides heterogeneous structuring and refinement, making it possible e.g. to verify that the OWL version of an ontology is indeed implied by its Common Logic version, or verify logical relations between different ontologies. We propose functionalities of this kind as highly desirable for next generation ontology management and repository building.     (1I3C)

Abstract: I will give an overview of the objectives for the COLORE project,     (1I3E1)

covering ontological engineering, issues specific to Common Logic, and issues related to software functionality.     (1I3F)

Abstract: ... This talk will outline efforts by Kojeware Corporation and the Semantic Technologies Laboratory at the University of Toronto to develop an open system for hosting a repository of Common Logic content from Goolge's cloud computing infrastructure. The requirements of this system will be summarized and a high-level description of the system will be presented. The Resource-Oriented Architecture we have designed to expose CL content using RESTful services will also be presented. Challenges with naming CL resources using globally unique and location-independent identifiers (i.e. URNs) will be discussed, and disparities between our requirements and capabilities of the current BioPortal system will be summarized.     (1I3I1)
Abstract: ... This brief talk will outline the capabilities of the open source (under GNU GPL/LGPL) Sigma Knowledge Engineering Environment http://sigmakee.sourceforge.net. Sigma has been released and developed on Source Forge starting in 2004. This talk will discuss its existing tool set including browsing, analysis and inference. Sigma supports SUO-KIF, with import/export capabilities for OWL, and TPTP formats. Its embedded inference system supports full first order logic with equality. An experimental higher order inference system is also included. While developed for the Suggested Upper Merged Ontology, Sigma can support any theory or set of theories of equivalent or lesser expressiveness. The SUO-KIF appears to be a concrete syntax of CL, and little effort would be required to allow CLIF display/import/export within Sigma.     (1I3L1)

Transcript of the online chat during the session     (1I4)

see raw transcript here.     (1I4A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1I4B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1I4C)

-- begin of chat session --     (1I4D)

Welcome to the Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion - Fri 10-Sep-2010     (1I4F)

o Professor John Bateman and Dr. habil. Till Mossakowski (Bremen U)     (1I4J)

- "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)"     (1I4K)

o Professor Michael Grüninger (U of Toronto)     (1I4L)

- "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project"     (1I4M)

o Mr. Cameron Ross (Kojeware)     (1I4N)

- "An OOR Implementation for COLORE"     (1I4O)

o Mr. Adam Pease (Articulate Software)     (1I4P)

- "Sigma as an OOR"     (1I4Q)

o Dr. Pat Hayes - some comments on work presented at this session     (1I4R)

please refer to dial-in and other details (incl. slide download links) on the session page     (1I4S)

Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button (top center)     (1I4V)

anonymous morphed into vnc2     (1I4W)

anonymous morphed into Tom Russ     (1I4X)

anonymous morphed into John Bateman     (1I4Y)

anonymous morphed into Matt Hettinger     (1I4Z)

Doug Foxvog: put the video link on the chat page     (1I4AA)

anonymous morphed into Elizabeth Florescu     (1I4AC)

Peter P. Yim: = John F. Sowa presenting (started 9:13am PDT) ...     (1I4AD)

Doug Foxvog: Can the Prolog cut operator be easily handled by First-Order logic?     (1I4AE)

Ali Hashemi: i think it should be on slide in the vnc     (1I4AF)

Doug Foxvog: The slide should be advance to slide 5 as Ali said     (1I4AH)

Till Mossakowski: A smaller version (3.5GB) of the Hets demo video is at:     (1I4AJ)

Ali Hashemi: (the link to JohnB's pdf version is not working)     (1I4AL)

Ali Hashemi: otherwise you might need to update some codecs     (1I4AN)

Doug Foxvog: I can play it with the VLC media player.     (1I4AO)

Rick Murphy: For folks who are interested. Hets is easy to install and config. Need to lean a little     (1I4AP)

Haskell, understand the background and you're good to go.     (1I4AQ)

Till Mossakowski: However, you can install and run Hets without any Haskell knowledge. Haskell     (1I4AR)

knowledge is only needed if you want to develop Hets.     (1I4AS)

Tom Russ: Quicktime on Mac is unable to play the movie.     (1I4AT)

Cameron Ross: I'm uploading the small video to youtube... it should be available shortly     (1I4AU)

Rick Murphy: Till's right. I was just think about those who want to get their hands dirty. Also great     (1I4AV)

support by Christian Maeder !     (1I4AW)

Peter P. Yim: thanks, Cameron ... this would work (probably for most of us)     (1I4AY)

Cameron Ross: Just click the link above and it will start in your browser     (1I4AZ)

anonymous2 morphed into Pavithra Kenjige     (1I4AAA)

Cameron Ross: @Peter - ctrl L will put Adobe Reader into fullscreen     (1I4AAB)

Peter P. Yim: the youtube link is now posted to the session page too     (1I4AAC)

Peter P. Yim: @Cameron - I am aware of that, but when the slide decks don't show a slide number, I'll     (1I4AAD)

need to stay on the smaller window to know what slide number we are on     (1I4AAE)

Cameron Ross: @Peter - makes sense     (1I4AAF)

Peter P. Yim: = Michael Grüninger presenting (start 9:59am PDT) ...     (1I4AAG)

Todd Schneider: Thank you to all presenters. Have to go.     (1I4AAH)

Peter P. Yim: = Cameron Ross presenting (started 10:09am PDT) ...     (1I4AAJ)

anonymous2 morphed into Pat Hayes     (1I4AAK)

Pat Hayes: hi all, Pat Hayes just got online.     (1I4AAL)

Peter P. Yim: Hi Pat ... glad you made it!     (1I4AAM)

Pat Hayes: hi peter. which slides are we in?     (1I4AAN)

Peter P. Yim: please morph into your real name (use "Settings" button at top center of window)     (1I4AAO)

Peter P. Yim: CameronRoss's slide#4     (1I4AAP)

John Bateman: The high resolution version of the HETS/CL demo video is now also on youtube at     (1I4AAQ)

Peter P. Yim: Thanks John & Till ... links on session pages updated - ref     (1I4AAS)

Adam Pease: phone battery died dialing back in     (1I4AAU)

John Bateman: There seems to be a terminological confusion between "Common Logic" as the CL that     (1I4AAV)

appears in CLIF files, and "Common Logic" in the broader sense. Otherwise it does not really make     (1I4AAW)

sense to talk of a "CL dedicated reasoner": what is necessary surely is the connection between many     (1I4AAX)

different reasoners as appropriate for the expressivity of the particular sublogics that CL may     (1I4AAY)

define (as argued for by John F. Sowa just now): i.e., what Hets does.     (1I4AAZ)

Pat Hayes: johnB: yes, people often say CL when they really mean CLIF. However, there is what one     (1I4AAAA)

might call a natural bias in CL to cover the whole free cl syntax, which goes beyond KIF in     (1I4AAAB)

significant ways.     (1I4AAAC)

anonymous6 morphed into Bart Gajderowicz     (1I4AAAD)

anonymous6 morphed into Till Mossakowski     (1I4AAAE)

Cameron Ross: @Adam - One issue I've found with translating SuoKif to CL is that SuoKif allows terms     (1I4AAAF)

to be sentences. However, over the thousands of sentences contained within SUMO, there are only 57     (1I4AAAG)

sentences that use this construct.     (1I4AAAH)

Till Mossakowski: We have developed a technique for proving consistency of ontologies by amalgamating     (1I4AAAI)

small models, conservative extensions, and refinements. We have applied this to DOLCE, which is not     (1I4AAAJ)

as huge as SUMO, but larger then anything model finders can handle.     (1I4AAAK)

Peter P. Yim: I was disconnected from this chat-session (the soaphub.org server may have been down) just     (1I4AAAL)

now ... and have lost the chat-transcript prior to now ... if anyone still has that, kindly say so     (1I4AAAM)

(and send me a copy for the archives, please     (1I4AAAN)

Bart Gajderowicz: @PeterYim: I have it, will archive and forward to you, Peter     (1I4AAAO)

John Bateman: Note to Adam on CVS: actually there are many reasons to go beyond basic text CVS. We     (1I4AAAQ)

are currently exploring the use of the XML-aware versioning system TnTBase (probably to be talked     (1I4AAAR)

about next week) and interfacing this with BioPortal. There is also work ongoing on semantic object     (1I4AAAS)

versioning, which is where we will want to be for ontology engineering I expect. TnTBase is,     (1I4AAAT)

however, built *on top* of standand versioning tools, so I would agree with Adam that there should     (1I4AAAU)

be no duplication of effort or repeating work that already exists, just because we are looking at     (1I4AAAV)

ontologies.     (1I4AAAW)

anonymous2 morphed into Rick Murphy     (1I4AAAX)

anonymous9 morphed into Michael Grüninger     (1I4AAAY)

anonymous morphed into Immanuel Normann     (1I4AAAZ)

John Bateman: For alignment and translation between ontologies, we have moved on somewhat: I'd refer     (1I4AAAAA)

you to the work from Till Mossakowski, Oliver Kutz, Immanuel Normann on 'shapes of alignment'. This     (1I4AAAAB)

makes much of the discussion about fixing particular vocabularies redundant.     (1I4AAAAC)

Doug Foxvog: The 90% ^ 5 => 6% argument only holds if each step is independent of the previous ones.     (1I4AAAAD)

However, if one is looking at logic chains, the separate steps are likely to be in the same context.     (1I4AAAAE)

Thus if the 90% covers the first step, the likelihood that terms in following rules also correspond     (1I4AAAAF)

should be far higher than 90%.     (1I4AAAAG)

anonymous morphed into John F. Sowa     (1I4AAAAH)

Adam Pease: I'm tempted to comment on the ontology discussion, but isn't it very off topic? This call     (1I4AAAAI)

is about an OOR, not upper ontology     (1I4AAAAJ)

John Bateman: I agree with Adam: old debates.     (1I4AAAAK)

Ali Hashemi: Depending on how the modules are related to one another (Conservative vs Non     (1I4AAAAL)

Conservative) it goes a long way in addressing PatCassidy's point     (1I4AAAAM)

Cameron Ross: @AdamPease and @JohnBateman - I'm currently looking into the possibility of integrating     (1I4AAAAN)

and re-branding the Google Code hosting service for an OOR.     (1I4AAAAO)

John Bateman: Pat: before you go.... can we have agreement on the module semantics!!! We're waiting     (1I4AAAAP)

on this to finalise the Hets treatment of the modules.     (1I4AAAAQ)

Cameron Ross: @PatHayes - I have a pile of comments regarding a revised spec! I'll start a dialog.     (1I4AAAAR)

anonymous1: Where's the CL mailing list?     (1I4AAAAS)

Peter P. Yim: who is this? "anonymous1"     (1I4AAAAT)

John Bateman: @PatHayes: we *need* the module decision!!!     (1I4AAAAV)

Cameron Ross: @PatCassidy - in terms of translation, the Samian Platform will support arbitrarily     (1I4AAAAW)

complex transformations steps, including steps that require complex reasoning... just need to know     (1I4AAAAX)

what thot is     (1I4AAAAY)

Pavithra Kenjige: @Dr.Sowa I am not in the common logic group, but I was interested in listen ingto     (1I4AAAAZ)

this group Thanks! Thanks every body!     (1I4AAAAAA)

Peter P. Yim: thanks everyone ... great session!     (1I4AAAAAB)

Cameron Ross: Bye everyone... thanks!     (1I4AAAAAD)

Peter P. Yim: -- session ended 11:10am PDT --     (1I4AAAAAE)

Peter P. Yim: @Bart ... looks like I do have a copy of the chat-transcript after all (from the vnc     (1I4AAAAAH)

server) ... therefore, no need to send, but really appreciate your offer to help, nonetheless!     (1I4AAAAAI)

Bart Gajderowicz: @PeterYim, no problem     (1I4AAAAAJ)

Peter P. Yim: Thanks again, Bart ... ttyl!     (1I4AAAAAK)

-- end of chat session --     (1I4AAAAAL)

  • Further Question & Remarks - please post them to the [ oor-forum ] listserv     (1I4AAAAAM)
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Audio Recording of this Session     (1J)

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