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= [[OntologyBasedStandards]] miniseries session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 =
= [[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Thu 2013-10-24 =


Session Co-chairs: '''Dr. [[GaryBergCross|Gary Berg-Cross]]''' (SOCoP) & '''Dr. [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]''' (Athan Services) ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf intro slides]
Program: '''Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications ([[RulesReasoningLP]]) mini-series of virtual panel sessions'''  


Topic: '''Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues'''  
Topic: '''[[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction'''  


Panelists / Briefings:
Session Co-chairs: '''Dr. LeoObrst''' (Ontolog; MITRE) & '''Dr. BenjaminGrosof''' (Coherent Knowledge Systems) ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-kickoff_LeoObrst-BenjaminGrosof_20131024.pdf intro slides]


* '''Dr. LuisBermudez''' (OGC) - "'''Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web'''" [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf slides]  
* Opening Remarks by Community & Technology Leaders and the Mini-series Co-champions: ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-Launch_opening-remarks-all_20131024.pdf slides]  
* '''Dr. SimonCox''' (CSIRO, Australia) - "'''Observations and Measurements (O&M)'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx slides]
** '''Professor MichaelGruninger''' ([[IAOA]]; U of Toronto)  
* '''Dr. CoryHenson''' (Kno.e.sis) ''(in absentia)'' "'''W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies'''" ''(presented by Dr. TaraAthan)'' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf slides]
** '''Professor MichaelKifer''' (SUNY, Stony Brook)  
* '''Dr. TorstenHahmann''' (U of Toronto) - "'''Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf slides]  
** '''Dr. LeoraMorgenstern''' (SAIC)
** '''Dr. VinayChaudhri''' (SRI)
** '''Dr. HaroldBoley''' ([[RuleML]]; U of New Brunswick)  
** '''Dr. HensonGraves''' (Algos Associates; OMG)  
** '''Professor KenBaclawski''' (Northeastern U)
** '''Dr. JohnSowa''' <nowiki>(VivoMind Research)</nowiki>
** '''Mr. MikeDean''' (Raytheon-BBN)  
** '''Mr. PeterYim''' ([[Ontolog]]; CIM3)


==[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/ Archives]==
* Survey and Introduction to Key Concepts and the Technology Landscape
** '''Dr. LeoObrst''' (MITRE; Ontolog) - "'''Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules'''" ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/Survey-of-Logic-Rules-Ontology-LP--LeoObrst_20131024.pdf slides]
** '''Dr. BenjaminGrosof''' (Benjamin Grosof & Associates) - "'''Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies'''" ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/Survey-of-KR-for-Rules-n-Ontologies--BenjaminGrosof_20131024.pdf slides]  


* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Abstract]]'''  
==[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/ Archives]==
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Agenda]]'''  
 
* '''Prepared presentation material (slides)''' can be accessed by clicking on each of the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/ title links] below:  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|Abstract]]'''  
** '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf 0-Chair] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf 1-Bermudez] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx 2-Cox] ([http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pdf pdf]) ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf 3-Henson (Athan)] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf 4-Hahmann] ]'''  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|Agenda]]'''
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Transcript of the online chat]]''' during the session ... ''(raw chat-transcript is available now; cleaned-up version later!)''
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|Proceedings]]'''  
* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards_20131017b.mp3 Audio recording of the session]''' ... [ 1:46:01 ; mp3 ; 12.14 MB ]  
* '''Prepared presentation material (slides)''' can be accessed by clicking on each of the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/ title links] below:  
** '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-kickoff_LeoObrst-BenjaminGrosof_20131024.pdf 0-Chair] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-Launch_opening-remarks-all_20131024.pdf 1-Opening-Remarks] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/Survey-of-Logic-Rules-Ontology-LP--LeoObrst_20131024.pdf 2-Obrst] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/Survey-of-KR-for-Rules-n-Ontologies--BenjaminGrosof_20131024.pdf 3-Grosof] ]'''  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|Transcript of the online chat]]''' during the session  
* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-Launch_20131024b.mp3 Audio recording of the session]''' ... [ 1:46:42 ; mp3 ; 12.22 MB ]  
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective presentations (linked above) opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.  
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective presentations (linked above) opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Additional Resources]]'''  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|Additional Resources]]'''  


== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details  ==
== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details  ==


* Date: '''Thursday, 17-Oct-2013'''  
* Date: '''Thursday, 24-Oct-2013'''  
* Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CEST / 5:30pm BST / 16:30 UTC  
* Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CEST / 5:30pm BST / 16:30 UTC  
** ref: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=17&year=2013&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 World Clock]  
** ref: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=24&year=2013&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 World Clock]  
* Expected Call Duration: 1.5~2.0 hours  
* Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours  


* Dial-in:  
* Dial-in:  
** '''Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100''' ... (long distance cost may apply)  
** '''Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100''' ... (long distance cost may apply)  
*** ... [ backup nbr: (415) 671-4335 ]  
*** ... [ backup nbr: (415) 671-4335 ]  
*** when prompted enter '''Conference ID: 141184#'''  
*** when prompted enter '''Conference ID: 141184#'''
** '''Skype: joinconference''' (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... [[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips|ref.]])  
** ''in view of recent reported'' '''''skype''''' ''connection issues, this is'' '''''not recommended''''' ''(especially for speakers) although it may still work for some'' ... '''Skype: joinconference''' (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... [[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips|ref.]])  
*** when prompted enter '''Conference ID: 141184#'''  
*** when prompted enter '''Conference ID: 141184#'''  
*** Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...  
*** Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...  
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**** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"  
**** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"  
**** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... ([[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips|ref.]])  
**** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... ([[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips|ref.]])  
*** if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or [[VoIP]] line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice  and call the US dial-in number:  +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#
** (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia, Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/


* '''Shared-screen support''' (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/  
* '''Shared-screen support''' (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/  
** view-only password: "ontolog"  
** view-only password: "ontolog"  
** if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.  
** if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.  
** people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|slides above]]''' (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.  
** people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|slides above]]''' (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.  


* '''In-session chat'''-room url: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20131017
* '''In-session chat'''-room url: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20131024
** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").  
** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").  
** You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.  
** You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.  
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20131017@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!  
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20131024@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!  


* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''  
* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''  
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* '''RSVP''' '' to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated,'' ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)  
* '''RSVP''' '' to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated,'' ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)  


* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2013_10_17
* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2013_10_24


* Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].  
* Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].  
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== Attendees  ==
== Attendees  ==


* Attended: (including all registrants)
* Attended:  
** [[GaryBergCross]] (co-chair)  
** [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] (co-chair)  
** [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (co-chair)  
** [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] (co-chair)  
** [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]  
** [[VinayChaudhri|Vinay Chaudhri]]
** [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]  
** [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]
** CoryHenson ''(in absentia)''  
** [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]]
** [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]  
** [[MichaelKifer|Michael Kifer]]  
** [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]]  
** [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]] ''(in absentia)''  
** [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]
** [[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]
** [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]]  
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]  
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]  
** [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]]
** [[DennisPierson|Dennis Pierson]]
** [[FrankLinton|Frank Linton]]
** [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]]
** [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]
** [[ChristopherSpottiswoode|Christopher Spottiswoode]]
** [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]
** [[MichaelBarnett|Michael Barnett]]
** [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]]
** [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]]  
** [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]]  
** [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]]
** [[HassanAitKaci]]  
** [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]
** [[GailHodge|Gail Hodge]]
** [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]]
** [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]
** [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]
** [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]]
** [[DeborahMacPherson]]
** [[AnneThessen|Anne Thessen]]
** [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]
** [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]  
** [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]  
** [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]  
** [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]]
** [[ElieAbiLahoud]]  
** [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]]
** [[FrankChum|Frank Chum]]  
** [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]
** [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]
** [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]
** [[NancyWiegand|Nancy Wiegand]]  
** [[AleksandraSojic|Aleksandra Sojic]]  
** [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]  
** [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]  
** [[CeciliaDiSciascio]]  
** [[TonyWeida|Tony Weida]]
** [[FranLightsom|Fran Lightsom]]  
** [[KarlHebenstreit|Karl Hebenstreit]]
** [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]]
** [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]
** AdrianGiurca
** AlessandroProvetti
** [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]]
** [[AliHashemi|Ali Hashemi]]  
** [[BrianHaugh|Brian Haugh]]  
** GenZou  
** GenZou  
** [[HamizahHamka|Hamizah Hamka]]
** [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]  
** [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]  
** [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]]  
** [[JulienCorman|Julien Corman]]  
** [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]  
** [[MichaelRiben|Michael Riben]]  
** [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]]  
** [[NaicongLi|Naicong Li]]  
** [[OliverKutz|Oliver Kutz]]
** Oscar Hdez?
** [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]]  
** [[PaulFodor|Paul Fodor]]  
** [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  
** [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  
** [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]
** SnezanaNikolic
** [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]
** [[WeihongSong|Weihong Song]]


* Expecting:  
* Expecting:  
** [[AdrianWalker|Adrian Walker]]
** [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]]
** PaulBrandt
** GregorySchaefer
** [[FranciscoEdgarCastilloBarrera]]&#8206;
** [[AdryaStembridge|Adrya Stembridge]]
** ...  
** ...  
** ''(please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)''  
** ''(please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)''  


* Regrets:  
* Regrets:  
** [[JamesWilson|James Wilson]]  
** [[PascalHitzler|Pascal Hitzler]]  
** CoryHenson
** [[AdrianPaschke|Adrian Paschke]]
** [[AdamWyner|Adam Wyner]]
** ...  
** ...  


== Abstract  ==
== Abstract  ==


'''Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues''' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf overview slides]  
'''[[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction''' ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/RulesReasoningLP-kickoff_LeoObrst-BenjaminGrosof_20131024.pdf intro slides]
 
This is the first session of the [[RulesReasoningLP]] mini-series. This will be a series of virtual panel sessions, and the associated online discourse, co-championed by some members of the Ontolog community who value the importance of the subject matter and would want to bring together those who are knowledgeable or interested into a dialog. The mini-series program will cover the topics that encapsulates the ontology-driven applications that will generally fall under "Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications."
 
The [[RulesReasoningLP]] mini-series program has come together through two open community brainstorm sessions, held on [[ConferenceCall_2013_07_25|2013.07.25]] (covering mainly program content) and [[ConferenceCall_2013_09_12|2013.09.12]] (covering mainly the organization and scheduling).
 
Joining us at our Launch Event today, are a number of community and technology leaders. They, along with our mini-series co-champions, will be delivering a range of opening remarks, right after our co-chairs' overview of the mini-series program. These remarks will, collectively provide diverse perspectives on why the theme chosen for this mini-series is important, and what we should try to achieve.
 
After the opening remarks, our co-chairs, Dr. [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] and Dr. [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]], will provide a survey of the subject matter and the scope of this mini-series. They will each take on some aspects outlined, and provide an introduction on key concepts and technologies involved, to prepare the participants for the exciting program content that will be rolled-out in the ensuing mini-series sessions.  
 
See developing details at: '''[[RulesReasoningLP]]''' (homepage for this mini-series)
 
== Agenda  ==
 
'''[[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction'''
 
:'''Session Format:''' this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call


As with [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|the recent session-4]] (The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard) this is a continuation of the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series that was started in late 2012 as a joint venture of [[OASIS]], [[OMG]], various [[ISO]] working groups, [[IAOA]], [[OOR]] and [[ONTOLOG]]. This session, is part of a program of 8 topics, which are planned to be held over the remaining time in 2013, and partly in 2014.  
* 1. Session introduction & mini-series overview - (co-chairs) - LeoObrst & [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] (10 min.) ... ([[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|slides]])
* 2. Opening Remarks from community & technology leaders, as well as the mini-series co-champions  - [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[MichaelKifer|Michael Kifer]], [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], [[VinayChaudhri|Vinay Chaudhri]], [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]], [[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]], [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]], [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (2 min. each)
* 3. Scope and Survey of the technology landscape - [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] & [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] (25 min.)
* 4. Open discussion - ALL (20~30 min.) ... (ref. [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|process above]])
* 5. Wrap-up - co-chairs: [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] & [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]]


We are over 10 years from Smith and Mark's [http://www.ncgia.buffalo.edu/ontology/SmithMarkIJGIS2001p591_s.pdf Geographical Categories: An Ontological Investigation] one of top 10 cited articles in the geospatial (GS) field. Many technical geospatial standards exist and there is increasing intersection of the GS technical community and the ontological and semantic technology communities. Still many geospatial data & web feature services have standardized terms but lack adequate semantics. Some of the concepts in need of improved semantics, such as quantity and observation, are not specific to the GS domain. This session explores some efforts to reduce the ambiguities in GS definitions, as well as the interrelationships of concepts across GS and related domains. The session builds on work coming out of standards bodies like the Open Geospatial Consortium ([[OGC]]), but also looks to progress on ontologies such as started on the [[W3C]] [http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/ Geospatial Incubator Group] which defined seven categories of Geospatial Ontologies:
== Proceedings  ==


* Geospatial Feature Ontology
Please refer to the [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|above]]
* Feature Type Ontology
* Spatial Relationship Ontology
* Toponym (Place name) Ontology
* Coordinate Reference / Spatial Grid Ontology
* Geospatial Metadata Ontology
* (Geospatial) Web Services Ontology


Notable also was the benchmark survey of the GS ontology landscape ([http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=cLKJhI0VkhEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA179&dq=#v=onepage&q = Geospatial Ontology Trade Study]) conducted in 2007 which reviewed spatial conceptualization in foundational and upper level ontologies but also concepts in domain and commercial standards (e.g. the Geography Markup Language [[GML]]) as well as spatial ontologies that are embedded in other ontologies such as [[SWEET]]. Several of the GS ontologies discussed in the trade study have been made available in the [http://socop.oor.net/ontologies SOCoP OOR] as part of NSF's funding of the [[NsfInterop_Grant|SOCoP INTEROP]] effort.
===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session===  


Another notable development has been the formalization of [[GeoSPARQL]] which was presented previously in the SOCoP [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NsfInterop_Grant/SemanticsInGeospatialArchitectures_2013_05_07 Virtual Workshop on Semantics in Geospatial and Other Architectures: Design and Implementation] (2013-05-07).  
see raw transcript [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/chat-transcript_unedited_20131024a.txt here].  


For our session today, we have invited presentations by people involved in the geospatial arena and with standards. Following a very brief overview, they will each present for about 20 minutes on their areas of work and interest. This will be followed by Q & A and an open discussion of issues.  
(for better clarity, the version below is a [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/chat-transcript_edited_20131024b.txt re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript].)


For more detail on the mini-series please also refer to details on the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series homepage.  
Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.  


=== Briefings  ===
-- begin in-session chat-transcript --


* '''Dr. LuisBermudez''' (OGC) - "'''Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web'''"  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf slides]
------


::''Abstract:'' ... This talk provides information about Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) activities related to the Semantic Web and gaps. It will highlight work done by OGC subcommittees, working groups and projects of the Interoperability Program. All these activities are using technologies that will allow better capturing and sharing rich semantics in OGC Geospatial standards. The talk will provide details about [[GeoSPARQL]] and OGC URIs. Finally, it will provide some information about ideas for future work, including UML to OWL activities.
Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131024


* '''Dr. SimonCox''' (CSIRO, Australia) - "'''Observations and Measurements (O&M)'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx slides]  
2013-10-24 GMT-08:00 [PDT]  


::''Abstract:'' ... We have developed OWL ontologies for the ISO/OGC model for Observations, and for other standard geographic information schemas (geometry, time, metadata) upon which it depends. Translation from the original UML to OWL follows the ISO 19150-2 rules. The ontologies have been prepared standalone, to respect the "upper ontology" implied by the ISO UML profile and ISO General Feature Model, and thus avoid introducing external bias. Mapping to other ontologies, such as the SSN ontology, can be done subsequently in RDFS and OWL axioms, and maintained as linksets separate from the structure model. A key issue is whether the OWL representation should exactly reproduce the frame-based UML model from the standard, or be an open-world OWL representation of some underlying model. This affects property scoping and object property restrictions. The latter choice requires more interpretation during conversion. Two incompatible ontologies have been developed through following both approaches.
------
:: The ISO-based ontology and SSN ontology are almost equally expressive. However, in the SSN ontology alignment with DOLCE is achieved by putting the Observation class in the <nowiki>DUL:SocialObject</nowiki> hierarchy, whereas in O&M it is conceived of as an "Event".


* . . . . . ''References:''
[9:28] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the  
** . . [http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1063/paper1.pdf Full Paper in Proceedings of 6th International Workshop on Semantic Sensor Networks]  
** . . [http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=32574 ISO 19156:2011]
** . . [http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/om OGC Observations and Measurements, XML and UML]  
** . . [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observations_and_Measurements Wikipedia description of O&M]  
** . . [https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/wiki/AppSchemas/ObservationsAndSampling A more discursive Wiki for O&M]
** . . [http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling rdf/xml version of the ontology] Note: this imports OWL representations of a number of other ISO models, including the actual observation ontology, either directly or transitively. The domain is temporary, until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not be for a couple of years :-( )


* '''Dr. CoryHenson''' (Kno.e.sis) "'''W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies'''" ''(presented by Dr. TaraAthan)'' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf slides]
''' [[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Thu 2013-10-24 '''


::''Abstract:'' ... The W3C Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group published its final report in 2011. One of two main objectives of the group was "to develop of an ontology to describe sensors and sensor networks," and this objective was met with the ontology presented in the final report, with online documentation at the link below. The ontology is domain independent and comprehensive, merging sensor-focused, observation-focused and system-focused views. It is intended to be used in conjunction with domain-specific ontologies as well as ontologies of measurement, time, location and mobility. It is aligned with the DOLCE Ultra Lite upper ontology, and is backward-compatible with the OGC's Sensor Web Enablement (SWE) standard.
Topic: [[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction )  


* . . . . . ''References:''
Session Co-chairs: Dr. [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] (Ontolog; MITRE) & Dr. [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] (Coherent Knowledge Systems)  
** . . the presntation at this session is an excerpt (essentially, slides #21~24) from CoryHenson's full presentation, which can be found at: http://www.slideshare.net/andrewhenson/w3c-semantic-sensor-networks-ontologies-applications-and-future-directions
** . . The W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontology - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn
** . . The W3C SSN Final Report - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/XGR-ssn-20110628/


* '''Dr. TorstenHahmann''' (U of Toronto) - "'''Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf slides]
Opening Remarks by Community & Technology Leaders and the Mini-series Co-champions:  


::''Abstract:'' ... The terms specified in currently available geospatial standards (and spatial standards in general) largely lack full semantic formalizations.  However, subtle differences abound in the spatial domain, thus it is especially important to formally state what the concepts and relations mean.
* Professor [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]] (IAOA; U of Toronto)
::In this talk, I will outline how spatial standards can be improved by grounding terms in first-order axiomatizations. While I will use examples from hydro ontology, much of the work generalizes to other geospatial domains and beyond, as demonstrated by ongoing work in anatomy.


== Agenda  ==
* Professor [[MichaelKifer|Michael Kifer]] (SUNY, Stony Brook)
 
* Dr. [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]] (SAIC)
 
* Dr. [[VinayChaudhri|Vinay Chaudhri]] (SRI)
 
* Dr. [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]] ([[RuleML]]; U of New Brunswick)
 
* Dr. [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]] (Algos Associates; OMG)
 
* Professor [[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]] (Northeastern U)
 
* Dr. [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]] (VivoMind Research)
 
* Mr. [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]] (Raytheon-BBN)
 
* Mr. [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (Ontolog; CIM3)
 
Survey and Introduction to Key Concepts and the Technology Landscape
 
* Dr. [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] (MITRE; Ontolog) - "Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules"
 
* Dr. [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] (Benjamin Grosof & Associates) - "Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies"
 
Please refer to details on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24
 
Attendees: AdrianGiurca, AlessandroProvetti, [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]], [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AliHashemi|Ali Hashemi]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]],
 
[[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]], [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]], [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]], [[BrianHaugh|Brian Haugh]], [[ChristopherSpottiswoode|Christopher Spottiswoode]], [[DennisPierson|Dennis Pierson]],
 
[[ElieAbiLahoud]], [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]], [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]], [[FrankChum|Frank Chum]], [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]], [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]], GenZou,
 
[[HamizahHamka|Hamizah Hamka]], [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[HassanAitKaci]], [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]], [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]], [[JulienCorman|Julien Corman]], [[KarlHebenstreit|Karl Hebenstreit]],
 
[[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]], [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]], [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]], [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], [[MichaelBarnett|Michael Barnett]], [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[MichaelRiben|Michael Riben]],
 
[[MikeDean|Mike Dean]], [[NaicongLi|Naicong Li]], Oscar Hdez?, [[PaulFodor|Paul Fodor]], [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]], [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]],
 
SnezanaNikolic, [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]], [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]], [[TonyWeida|Tony Weida]], [[VinayChaudhri|Vinay Chaudhri]], [[WeihongSong|Weihong Song]], anonymous, ...
 
''' proceedings: '''
 
[9:26] anonymous morphed into [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]]
 
[9:29] anonymous morphed into [[WeihongSong|Weihong Song]]
 
[9:31] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Logistics note, confirming what Peter mentioned last week: you can skype-call
 
to "joinconference" even if it shows as "offline". I've just gotten on the call that way. Right
 
click on contact, choose "Call" then choose "Skype call."
 
[9:35] [[AliHashemi|Ali Hashemi]]: joinconference is not online but invisible?
 
[9:36] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: joinconference is hiding but working
 
[9:36] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Ali, can you see my 12:31 comments above?
 
[9:40] [[AliHashemi|Ali Hashemi]]: Just saw them, thanks.
 
[9:31] anonymous morphed into [[ChristopherSpottiswoode|Christopher Spottiswoode]]
 
[9:32] anonymous1 morphed into AdrianGiurca
 
[9:32] anonymous morphed into [[NaicongLi|Naicong Li]]
 
[9:32] anonymous1 morphed into [[HassanAitKaci]]
 
[9:33] anonymous morphed into [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]]
 
[9:35] anonymous2 morphed into [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]
 
[9:35] anonymous morphed into [[KarlHebenstreit|Karl Hebenstreit]]
 
[9:35] anonymous morphed into [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]
 
[9:37] anonymous morphed into [[DennisPierson|Dennis Pierson]]
 
[9:38] anonymous morphed into [[JulienCorman|Julien Corman]]
 
[9:40] anonymous2 morphed into [[MichaelRiben|Michael Riben]]
 
[9:40] anonymous1 morphed into [[BrianHaugh|Brian Haugh]]
 
[9:40] anonymous2 morphed into GenZou
 
[9:41] anonymous1 morphed into [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]]
 
[9:41] [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]]: Mute using *6
 
[9:45] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] and [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] starts the session - please open the slides at:
 
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24#nid3ZR3
 
[9:45] anonymous1 morphed into [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]]
 
[9:46] [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]]: I cannot get to the web page any more under any browser
 
[9:49] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Henson - the wiki session page should be working properly (I just checked from my own browser)
 
[9:49] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == Opening Remarks: see -
 
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24#nid3ZQT
 
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...
 
notes on various opening remarks (2-min. each)
 
Michael Gruninger
 
- advocate of expressive, esp. FOL and CL
 
- need good support for automated reasoning to be really useful
 
- looking for guidance from reasoning community wrt tools for ontologies
 
to be evaluated and applied


'''[[OntologyBasedStandards]] Mini-series Panel Session-05'''
- looking for test cases from the ontology community


:'''Session Format:''' this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call
- hope for insights on what is the appropriate ontology language to use


* 1. Session opening: overview - (co-chairs) - [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (10 min.) ... ([[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|slides]])
operationally for various applications, not just original development of
* 2. Panel Briefings - [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], CoryHenson (TaraAthan), [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] (20 min. ea)
* 3. Open discussion - ALL (20 min.) ... (ref. [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|process above]])
* 4. Wrap-up - (co-chairs) - [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]


== Proceedings  ==
ontologies


Please refer to the [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|above]]
Leora Morgenstern


===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session===
- at Leidos, co. new name of split SAIC


see raw transcript [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/chat-transcript_unedited_20131017a.txt here].
- working on DARPA seedling on how to go from regulatory text to executable


(for better clarity, the version below is a [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/chat-transcript_edited_20131017b.txt re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript].)
rules


Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.  
. looking at financial, incl. SEC, and other Patriot Act


-- begin in-session chat-transcript --
- extract intermediate representations, incl.


------
. as rich an ontology as one can get


Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017
. dependency graph among rules


2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT]
. semantic parsing and assignment for roles incl. permission/obligation


------
- an immediate issue is what representation to use


[9:13] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the
. RIF is clearly inadequate expressively


''' [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 '''
. exceptions are such a fundamental concept, incl. priorities


Session Co-chair: Dr. [[GaryBergCross]] (SOCoP) & Dr. [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (Athan Services)
o need language like SILK -- ie Rulelog


Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues
Michael Kifer


Panelists / Briefings:
- think the rules community has the best technology for KR, but somehow not


* Dr. [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]] (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web"
getting its due in the community


* Dr. [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)"
- RIF - systemic problems due to the charter could not produce the dialect


* Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan)
most useful for the rules community, had to focus on BLD which is basically


* Dr. [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology"
Datalog and not so useful


Logistics:
- later tried to produce more expressive dialects, which use Well Founded


* Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17
Semantics, but it's hard to get attention for this


* (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your <nowiki>RealName</nowiki>
- now I and Benjamin are pushing Rulelog


* Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute
- would like people to pay more attention to standards, and produce right


* Can't find Skype Dial pad?
standards


** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
- not clear that W3C is the right venue for this, since not clear


** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now
they are interested in continuing the RIF effort


(as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)
- feel that the efforts overall are fractured, incl. there is an effort for  


Attendees: [[AleksandraSojic|Aleksandra Sojic]], [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]], [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]], [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]],  
Answer Set Programs but they don't seem interested in non-ASP, only ASP


[[CeciliaDiSciascio]], [[DeborahMacPherson]], [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]], [[FranLightsom|Fran Lightsom]], [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]],
. need to overcome this fragmentation


[[GaryBergCross]], GenZou, [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]], [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]], [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]], [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]],
Vinay Chaudhri


[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]], [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]], [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]], [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]], [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]], [[OliverKutz|Oliver Kutz]],
- (see his slide)


[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]], [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]], [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]
- separation between ontologies and rules is artificial


''' Proceedings '''
- focus should be on decidable reasoning


[8:58] anonymous morphed into [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]]
. folks in rule languages community have not focused so much on this,


[9:19] anonymous morphed into [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]
but rather on expressiveness


[9:19] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people
. in DB systems, the performance guarantees are crucial


from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference"
Harold Boley


is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or [[VoIP]] line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or
- (see his slides)  


google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#
Henson Graves


[9:20] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it
- (see his slide)  


indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)
Ken Baclawski


[9:20] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia,
- (see his slide)  


Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/
John Sowa


[9:22] [[GaryBergCross]]: Hello all.
- (see his slides, he mainly covered slide 2 verbally)


[9:26] anonymous morphed into [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]
- recorded (started about 10:14a PDT)


[9:27] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Hi everyone
- vagueness and uncertainty are important


[9:30] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Is my chat coming through now?
. contrast that with very clean model-theoretic kinds of approaches


[9:31] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - Yes
Mike Dean


[9:30] anonymous morphed into [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]
- delighted to see this cooperation b/ ontology and rules community,


[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]]
which have largely been disjoint despite many common goals


[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]
Peter Yim


[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]
- (see his slide)


[9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou
- feel this miniseries is a very important next step


[9:37] anonymous1 morphed into [[CeciliaDiSciascio]]  
[9:53] anonymous1 morphed into [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]  


[9:37] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-)
[9:53] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @speakers - those who do not have slides for their opening remarks are encouraged


[9:38] anonymous morphed into [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]]
to capture their thoughts into this chat-room (or send me their slide(s) which I can add back to the archives)


[9:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK
[9:56] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Leo, @Banjamin - (please remind the participants) we have 46 people on the


[9:42] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great ... thanks, Simon
phone-bridge, but only 38 in the chat ... please join us in the chat-room if you aren't already ...  


[9:45] [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time?
ref. details at top of session page


[9:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @RichardMartin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings"
[9:56] anonymous1 morphed into [[PaulFodor|Paul Fodor]]  


(top center of window) helps
[10:01] anonymous morphed into SnezanaNikolic


[9:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] started the session ... please bring up slides under:
[9:59] [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], Contact me about an upcoming workshop in DC Nov. 14-15 on


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V
information sharing for financial regulation. I think you would find it interesting.  


[9:44] anonymous morphed into [[DeborahMacPherson]]  
[10:02] List of members: AdrianGiurca, [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AliHashemi|Ali Hashemi]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]], [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]],


[9:47] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category
[[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]], [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]], [[BrianHaugh|Brian Haugh]], [[ChristopherSpottiswoode|Christopher Spottiswoode]], [[DennisPierson|Dennis Pierson]], [[ElieAbiLahoud]],


work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different,  
[[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]], [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]], [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]], GenZou, [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[HassanAitKaci]], [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]],  


however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in
[[JulienCorman|Julien Corman]], [[KarlHebenstreit|Karl Hebenstreit]], [[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]], [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]], [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]], [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], [[MichaelBarnett|Michael Barnett]],  


semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain?
[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[MichaelRiben|Michael Riben]], [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]], [[NaicongLi|Naicong Li]], [[PaulFodor|Paul Fodor]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]], [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]],


[9:51] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and
SnezanaNikolic, [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]], [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]], [[TonyWeida|Tony Weida]], [[WeihongSong|Weihong Song]]


different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of
[10:05] anonymous morphed into [[FrankChum|Frank Chum]]


this in the talks starting with Luis....
[10:03] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @VinayChaudhri: The reason we need a rule language and not just


[9:47] anonymous morphed into [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]
ontologies, is that ontologies aren't sufficiently expressive.


[9:48] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]] presenting ...  
[10:03] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: We need rules with n-ary predicates, for examples.  


[9:52] anonymous morphed into [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  
[10:03] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: We need to represent exceptions and default reasoning.


[10:05] [[GaryBergCross]]: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations.  
[10:04] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: +1 to remarks about artificiality of separating "rules" from "ontology." IMHO


[10:11] [[DeborahMacPherson]]: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks
this creates artificial barriers and obstacles for projects using a representation that separates these.


[10:18] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here:
[10:04] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: We can't do all that we need in an ontology.


http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/geo4niem
[10:04] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: However, an ontology is an important component in our system.  


[10:10] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] presenting ...  
[10:04] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: @LeoraMorgenstern: that's crazy talk. Next you'll want default reasoning or something :-P


[10:14] [[GaryBergCross]]: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30.  
[10:04] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @Simon, indeed I do want default reasoning. And yes, crazy talk is what I do.  


[10:21] [[GaryBergCross]]: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing.
[10:05] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @LeoraMorgenstern, I think the point is that there is no reason to think of


--[10:22] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Voice connection broken!
the rules as something apart from the ontology. That separation is what gives us insufficiently


--[10:22] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Simon, we can't hear you.  
expressive ontologies. But many ontologies/ representations include rules as an essential part of the ontology.  


--[10:22] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Simon?
[10:05] [[FrankOlken|Frank Olken]]: [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], I agree with the need for rules with n-ary predicates.


--[10:22] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in
[10:07] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @Amanda, yes, some rules, but not all kinds of rules. Rules with n-ary


--[10:23] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point?  
predicates? default rules?  


--[10:24] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question if anyone sees [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] on skype] I do
[10:07] [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]: [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], Frank, The issue is the expressivity of representation


--[10:24] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: great
language. Some are less expressive than others.


--[10:24] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: I have tried skyping him
[10:07] [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]]: The separation of ontology from rules is probably an artifact of semantic web


--[10:25] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on.  
technologies, i.e., DL-based OWL. Other ontology languages make no such separation.  


--[10:25] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I'm back now
[10:07] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @Todd, frankly, we need more than FOL.


--[10:27] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - great, thank you!
[10:08] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @LeoraMorgenstern, that will vary with expressiveness of language. And


--[10:26] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: we were at the ISO 19150-2 (2015?) slide (slide #7)
different use cases will require different expressiveness.


[10:24] anonymous morphed into [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]  
[10:10] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @Amanda, certainly, if you expand your definition of ontology to include


[10:30] anonymous morphed into [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]]
rules with n-ary predicates, default rules, modal operators (deontic logic), etc, then sure. But


[10:27] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and SimonCox.
then we're just redefining the word, no?


It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago:
[10:10] [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]: [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]], for your problem space, probably. The question(s) that


http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/gswie
should be asked is what problems are you trying to solve. This should then provide requirements for


[10:32] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL
the needed expressivity and the language needed (and any supplements).


mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then
[10:12] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @Todd, I think that's exactly right. What I took Vinay to be addressing is


generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these
this (relatively recent) phenomenon in which people discover that limited-expressiveness languages,  


issues are still very much live.
not supporting rules, are insufficient for their needs, and then create or adopt a *separate*,


[10:39] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the
added-on language for rules. It seems much more sensible instead to move to a higher-expressiveness,


widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe.  
rule-inclusive representation -- of which there are many, already developed and understood.  


[10:40] [[GaryBergCross]]: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee.
[10:14] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @LeoraMorgenstern, for many of us who have been working in ontologies for


[10:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ...  
many years, we are experiencing a redefinition in the other direction. This idea of ontologies as


[10:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [responding to TaraAthan's remark that CoryHenderson cannot be with us today, and  
not including rules is the new one, and when it first started popping up in literature/ conferences,


therefore she is presenting Cory's work] I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next
etc., it was quite puzzling.


week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions!
[10:15] [[LeoraMorgenstern|Leora Morgenstern]]: @Amanda, I understand your point. But I think you can see where I'm coming


[10:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Maybe he's travelling now ...
from. It's a complex domain, and we need a very expressive representation, and I don't know of any


[10:42] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up at this time slot.  
ontology that gives what I need. If you can point one out, I'll be happy to look at it,.  


[10:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user-
[10:21] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @LeoraMorgenstern, I definitely get it. And I started my ontology career


(observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to [[SensorML]],  
working with Cyc / [[CycL]], so was spoiled at the outset with respect to expressivity and the use of


consumer-centric motivated O&M
rules within ontology. I hope that in the process of this miniseries, we see more richness of


--[10:45] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Now we lost Tara?
options!


--[10:46] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: Tara, we cannot hear you
[10:15] [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]]: It might help if we are clear about the difference between the language, and the


--[10:46] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment
model that is the basis for assigning meanings to terms in the language. If you think the "ontology"


--[10:46] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I'll try to reconnect
doesn't include rules, that might be because you are thinking of the ontology as the model. But the


--[10:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great!
language can surely include terms and functions and operators as needed for describing the domain.  


--[10:47] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: skype froze on me
In that sense, there's no need to have separate languages for the "ontology" and the rules. I'm


--[10:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: take your time, Tara
putting "ontology" in quotes because we are pretty fast and loose in the semantic tech world about


--[10:50] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I'm back now, calling in from my landline
what an ontology is.


[10:50] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: Sorry, I cannot see the slides...  
[10:19] [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]: [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]], an ontology is a model (of some sort).  


[10:51] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :(  
[10:13] [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]: Amanda, the largest constraint (from a production viewpoint) is the viability


[10:52] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: let me see ...  
of the infrastructure to support the choice.  


[10:59] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox
[10:16] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Todd, that's very true. The best-tooled, best-tested, higher-expressiveness


[10:52] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the
systems are also mostly proprietary. Currently, most(?) or at least many projects require or prefer


slides and run them on your own machine locally
an open standard representation langugage, and we lag badly in the support for the


[10:47] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that
higher-expressiveness options there.  


way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social
[10:20] [[ToddSchneider|Todd Schneider]]: Amanda, Yes. Any large customer usually prefers or requires products that  


means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and
comply with [open] standards.  


typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in
[10:13] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Anyone here who knows anything about Typed Feature Structures and unification?


epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way.
:-P


[10:48] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation.
[10:16] anonymous morphed into [[HamizahHamka|Hamizah Hamka]]  


[10:49] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context
[10:18] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: @Harold. I am looking at your slides (no. 5). A question about the concept


[10:49] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @JoshLieberman - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either
of "reaction rules". Did I get it right when you suggested that we could reuse the same ontological


way has special areas of emphasis and dilution.
rules from an ontology to another in no random order, but according to the subsumed examples that


[10:50] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question on where one can find the owl
you proposed? e.g. spatio ontology subsumes to temporal ontology, action ont. to event ont. etc.?


axiomatization of the various ontologies mentioned in the preseentation] Start here:
Thank you for the explanation.


http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/
[10:41] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: @Francesca, the "Reaction Rules" slide gives the big picture of Reaction


[10:50] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not
[[RuleML]]. In the third row, spatio and temporal ontologies are often used together, as are action and


be for a couple of years :-( (
event ontologies. But generally, (Reaction) [[RuleML]] provides a 'pluggable' architecture where you can


[10:51] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: if you ask for http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling you
modularly combine various ontologies. We are currently re-specifying Reaction [[RuleML]] 1.0 from XSD in


should get the lot
Relax NG. This would allow MYNG-style customization of Reaction [[RuleML]] as we already do for


[10:51] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical
Deliberation [[RuleML]]: http://wiki.ruleml.org/index.php/MYNG


concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a
[11:03] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: @Harold: Among the good things that are in the wiki (shared link) is the


particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement.
fact that it contains examples (ref. "Example Instance Files for [[RuleML]] 1.0"). It helps to frame the


{{{
final intent into real world applications.
[10:52] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We need here define physical algorithms (observation|measurement) - this is a challenge:-)
}}}


[10:53] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server
[10:21] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] presenting: "Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules"


so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a
[10:24] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Program = algorithm + data . Algorithm = logic + control


surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ...  
. Program = logic + control + data . Ontology = program - control?


[10:56] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [[SensorML]], and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems
[10:31] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: got the def. of reaction rules. thank you Leo


[10:56] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: ([[SensorML]] is OGC standard)
[10:34] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Prolog is a high level WAM assembler language


[10:57] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Tara - perhaps this one:  
[11:24] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: WAM - A tutorial reconstruction - http://wambook.sourceforge.net/


http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Incubator_Report#Aligning_the_SSN_Ontology_and_the_core_SSO_design_pattern_with_DOLCE
[10:38] [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]]: What Leo is referring to with LP is often the LP family of KRs, incl.  


[10:59] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support
extensions for skolemization, defeasibility, Rulelog, etc.


provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


<nowiki>
notes on survey by Leo (see his slide deck)


[11:01] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]:  
(Benjamin's note to self:


SSN class </Users/taraathan/Downloads/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--[[CoryHenson_SSN]]-subset-TA_20131017.pdf (is subclass of) DUL class
nice/cute ex. of semantics of material implication and contraposition: 


Deployment < Process(DUL)
"if pigs can fly ..."" on slide 7)  


SensorOutput < InformationObject
[10:42] anonymous morphed into Oscar


Observation < Situation
[10:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] presenting: ""Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies "


Device < DesignedArtifact
[10:55] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Regarding @BenjaminGrosof's slide 3 point 3: Agreed, but a notable point:


System, Sensor, Platform < PhysicalObject
anyone who takes even an Introduction to "Symbolic Logic" or "Formal Logic" course (usually taught


SensorInput < Event
in a Philosophy or Mathematics department, but often taken much more broadly) in college *does*


Process(SSN) < Method
learn the rules and key ingredients here. Test: if your Intro to Logic class had variables and


[[FeatureOfInterest]] < Event or Object
Quantifiers, you learned this. :-)


Property < Quality
[10:56] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Imperial College still has mandatory Prolog (sequenced after the first Logic course)


ObservationValue < Region (a region in a dimensional space which can be used as a value for a quality
[10:56] [[HamizahHamka|Hamizah Hamka]]: Apologize team of experts. Need to leave too soon for its too late here. Hope


of an Entity e.g. TimeInterval, SpaceRegion, PhysicalAttribute, Amount, . . .)
to participate in future event. Have a fruitful discussion.  


</nowiki>
[10:58] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @HamizahHamka - thank you for participating ... all the way from Malaysia


[10:59] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] presenting ...
[10:57] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: +1 Slide 4: viewing as "rules" or "ontological statements" is largely a


--[11:03] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: Has the conference call failed or just me?
matter of *view* and *use*. In fact, expressive KRs include "syntactic sugar" to allow moving


--[11:03] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: just you
between the views for many kinds of information.


--[11:03] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: Still going on.
[11:00] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Big point in support of the "rules" & "ontological knowledge" overlap: The


--[11:04] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: sorry [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]], please dial back in again
fundamental ontological relationship of "subclass" or "subtype" is a (usually hard-coded) expression


--[11:05] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: (@Bruce - skype can't see you, maybe restart skype)
of a rule pattern: "A is a subclass of B" means: "If x is an instance of A then x is also an


--[11:05] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: @Peter Back in
instance of B." It's that fundamental.


--[11:06] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @BruceSimons - great!
[11:00] anonymous morphed into AlessandroProvetti


[11:05] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @TorstenHahmann +1 on the lesser emphasis on relationships.
[11:06] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: I'm not sure that the OWL choice of OWA (with no Clark completion) keeps it in


[11:13] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: how is "water" defined- does it include dissolved substances?  
the mainstream of LP?  


suspended particles? fish?
[11:08] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: ( http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~klc/neg.html )


[11:13] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Crocodiles?
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


[11:13] [[GaryBergCross]]: With whatever time we have for discussion presenters may have a chance for
notes on survey by Benjamin (see his slide deck)


discussing of each other's ideas.  
Cyc is much closer to Rulelog (vs. to FOL or to LP)


[11:14] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Crocodile-infested water is surely a sub class of water, with a restriction on
[11:12] [[HassanAitKaci]]: Before Hilog: lambda-Prolog, and its later incarnation Teyjus (


the property "infestedBy"?
http://teyjus.cs.umn.edu/ )


[11:14] [[DeborahMacPherson]]: Need to take off - thanks for the interesting presentations!
[11:21] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Dale Miller's et al.'s lambda-Prolog actually covers a (second-order) fragment


[11:14] [[GaryBergCross]]: @tara there may be bio, geo and chemical constituents of a water body.  
of higher-order logics, not just higher-order syntax: http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~dale/lProlog/


[11:15] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @gary - thx
[11:17] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == Q&A and open discussion ... please raise your hand, get called upon by the


[11:16] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @SimonCox @TaraAthan - One issue with the SSN and the OM model is that SSN
chair, test your voice, before making your remark


doesn't treat Sensor as a subclass of Process (in O&M called Procedure). In SSN a Sensor can
[11:19] [[HassanAitKaci]]: [regarding how to be heard on the voice bridge, to make a remark] I'm on


implement some Sensing, and Sensing is sub class of Process, but I don't see this as a big issue.  
Skype and unmuted ... I don't understand ... [ppy: you will press "*7" on the skype "dialpad" to


[11:16] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Presumably, and noting the particular wording on slide 10, any of those
un-mute (it maybe hidden under the "Call" dropdown menu) ... after speaking, press "*6" to go back


things could be *in* the water body, but they would not be *constituents* of the water body.  
mute again.]


[11:17] [[GaryBergCross]]: Reminder the free Nov 18-19 SOCoP workshop page is at
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDC2013. Please come...this means you Amanda and Josh.
notes on remarks from [[HassanAitKaci]]


[11:17] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Noted, Gary. Will email you about that.
Hassan: presentations very good, but bit biased in that ignored some


[11:18] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: SSN and O&M are each self-consciously domain-neutral
important relevant work


[11:19] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Thanks @Amanda - Crocodiles may be constituents of water-body, but not of water
- in particular: lambda calculus, where a function is described as a rule


[11:19] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - Thereby supporting documentation of hydrological samples and
- that was the basis for the first work on higher-order programming


measurement of the ppm of crocodiles.  
. G&eacute;rard Huet. R&eacute;solution d'&eacute;quations dans les langages d'ordre 1,2,&mldr;,&omega;. Th&egrave;se de doctorat d'&eacute;tat, Universit&eacute; Paris 7, 1976


[11:19] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: !
. Dale Miller and Gopalan Nadathur on lambda-Prolog


[11:20] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Good insight. infestedBy and similar properties would be properties of
. Teyjus.cs.umn.edu system work at U Minn by Gopalan Nadathur -- see that for references


WaterBody not of Water as such.
- key to cover in miniseries:  operational, implementation,


[11:20] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Torsten, you are on the way to build axiomatic theory of hydrology!
pragmatically how run, how efficient


[11:21] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == Open Discussion ...  
. Prolog via WAM


--[11:23] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Can't hear Luis
. lambda-calculus also implemented via an abstract-machine mechanism


--[11:23] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: audio problems
- work on constraint logic programming


--[11:23] [[GaryBergCross]]: a pulsing sound on the audio.
. gives Prolog technology much bigger power, opens the LP paradigm to anything


--[11:24] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Having problems with skype
that one can represent as a constraint solving process, incl.


--[11:24] [[GaryBergCross]]: Luis - can you type your point in??
probabilistic or fuzzy or whatever


--[11:24] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: please type here @LuisBermudez
- there's a new generation that's not very educated in logic programming


[11:24] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: yes, infestedBy crocodiles would be a property of a WaterBody, not of the water
in general


(which may flow further downstream to a not-infested water body)
. we need to make it learnable without undue effort


[11:25] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Are - distinguish between solution and suspension!
Benjamin in response to Hassan: agree


[11:26] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: ... and colloid (to complete the set)
- also very important is modern LP implementationally are tabling techniques,


[11:26] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: We'll be getting into colloids next!
a kind of caching of work on subgoals and their results


[11:26] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: (snap)
[11:39] [[HassanAitKaci]]: http://cs.brown.edu/people/pvh/CPL/Papers/v1/hak.pdf


[11:26] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: Thank you to the Speakers. Looking forward to the next session.
[11:17] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: You can practically explore higher-order Hornlog syntax as developed for Hilog


[11:27] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Hmmm. Ontology begat chemistry / vv
( http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~warren/xsbbook/node45.html ) and Relfun (


[11:28] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: I believe that those sorts of chemistry distinctions have been formalized...  
http://www.cs.unb.ca/~boley/FLP/cs6905FLP.pdf ) using the online Relfun interpreter:


now I need to find a link to back that up...  
http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~vega/relfun-cgi/cgi-bin/rfi.cgi


[11:28] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Josh - observing vs reasoning. Some science involves more of the latter (e.g. geology)
[11:25] [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]]: Can either of the presenters comment on the application of tmeporal


[11:29] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Torsten, maybe we should speak about ecological system in hydrology.
descriptors as terms? in logic programs?


[11:29] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: sensing vs. reasoning
[11:25] [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]]: As mentioned by Hassan, efficiency is important, and such an area as knowledge


[11:26] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Torsten, How far do you think OGC should go standardizing Geospatial Ontologies?
compilation addresses how to "compile" very expressive knowledge into more efficient runtime


[11:29] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: @Luis: good question. I think being able to verify the consistency of the standards
representation.  


would be a reasonable goal. Of course, it is probably out of scope to formalize all kinds of geographic toponyms
[11:28] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: "With imperative programming, you have to tell the computer how to do what you


[11:29] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: I might think of it more as established versus contingent processing of a measurement.  
want. With declarative programming, you have to trick the computer in to doing what you want."


[11:30] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Torsten thank you will follow up with you later about what you mean by "consistency of standards"
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


[11:31] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: @Luis: sure, would be happy to discuss it in more detail
notes on verbal Q from [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] wrt LeoObrst's presentation, slide 26


[11:34] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Torsten I agree that it can go both ways and does, but perhaps standard
Q. Peter asked what Leo meant when he said things like substructural logics and


bodies need to support the heavy work.
probabilistic logics would not be include - whether he meant these are not in scope


[11:35] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Gary et al. I lost my audio
in this mini-series


[11:36] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Simon - good point to put on record the crisis of geospatial standards because of limitations
A. Leo responded that he just meant that these things will not be included in this


[11:42] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Gary - I mentioned 'crisis' in standards - adoption lags development, which lags
particular presentation (and slide deck)


design, by years or decades.
[11:28] [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: Is there a description of [[RuleML]] and its component "ontologies" that describes


[11:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: We already know that OGC interface standards are out of date, yet institutions are
it concepts in a way that is similar to FOAF or RDFS?


only now adopting and deploying
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


[11:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: There are some thing which will endure however: mostly information side (models)
notes on JoelBender's verbal Q about description of [[RuleML]] <--> RDF ontologies as in foaf or whatever


[11:38] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Standards should use CNL first of all - like ACE;-) It's a step to formalization:-)
Answer by Harold and Benjamin:  


[11:39] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: CNL?
- there are relationships in terms of data models,


[11:39] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Controlled Natural Language
. Harold will post some links to chat; also it's important


[11:40] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: But they are already committed to UML, and have big corpus ...  
- it's also important to understand at logical/semantic level, incl. what's


[11:41] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Simon, then we need converter from UML to CNL;-)
essential in syntax


[11:41] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Alex CNL yes +1.
[11:33] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Data models of XML (positional) and RDF (slotted) can be reconciled:


[11:42] [[GaryBergCross]]: [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]] made some efforts to describe a CNL for Common Logic.  
http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~boley/xmlrdf.html


[11:43] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We convert our petrology DB to ACE manually:-(
[11:37] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: [[RuleML]] uses XML in the object-oriented manner enabled by this reconciliation:  


[11:43] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Gary, this is a trend CNL - FOL:-)  
Distinction of capitalized Nodes ('types') and lower-cased edge ('role') XML elmenets.


[11:38] [[GaryBergCross]]: Simon's observations are similar to what Bill McCarthy presented: Tension
[11:42] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: The [[RuleML]] Normalizer RON can automatically generate object-oriented stripes/slots:  


between a theoretical ontology community and a standards community.  
http://wiki.ruleml.org/index.php/Specification_of_Deliberation_RuleML_1.0#XSLT-Based_Normalizer


[11:40] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: @Gary that's something I think Bill and I will pick up on in our session.
[11:29] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: [ref. PeterYim's request to participants to morphed into their real names for


[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: ... we have a really distributed participation today ... quite a number of
attribution purposes] [I just briefly mis-heard "attribution" as "retribution" :-\!]  


countries are represented here: I can recognize (at least) folks from Australia (Melbourne and Sydney),
[11:33] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Amanda - very funny! :)  


Canada, China (Hong Kong), Germany, Romania, Russia, United Kingdom, United States and Venezuela
[11:34] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @Peter :-)  


[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: To get involved in the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] dialog, please subscribe yourself to
[11:30] [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]]: Can either of the presenters comment on the application of tmeporal


the [ontology-based-standards] list, if you haven't already -
descriptors as terms? in logic programs? dynamic ontologies?


http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards
[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/RulesReasoningLP/2013-10-24_RulesReasoningLP_Launch/notes-from-discussion-v1--BenjaminGrosof_21031024b.txt notes] ...


[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-24) for the [[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch
notes on AlexMirzaoff's verba  Q about how things change in time


Event - co-chairs: [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] & [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] - ref. developing session details at:  
- A by Leo: can use ontology of time or temporal logic


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24
- A by Benjamin: temporal reasoning is representable within expressive general


[11:40] [[GaryBergCross]]: Thank you all. we could have had 2 sessions on this. I hope the conversation
logics such as CL and Rulelog;


continues in the Ontolog and SOCoP forums.  
. practically, defeasibility is often very important to do


[11:40] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: Thanks Gary and Tara for organizing.
temporal reasoning efficiently and tersely, particularly


[11:40] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: How fast can retrofit happen?
to represent causality,


[11:40] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Thank you all:-)
incl. projection forward in time or backward in time


[11:41] [[GaryBergCross]]: Thanks again Simon....it was great to have you on.
(as in abduction and inductive learning)


[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: sorry about the connection problems today! (I'll clean that up in the recording)
[11:38] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Last year's "Best Paper Award" recipient at the the STIDS conference


[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great session! thanks everyone ...
presented a particular ontological representation of time that supported a variety of reasoning


[11:41] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Thanks to the speakers, and also the attendees for some great questions.  
approaches that have been often addressed in ways that have some built-in problems...  


[11:44] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Time for shower/breakfast
[11:41] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @AlexMirzaoff: see Shrag "Best-practice..." at


[11:44] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: ;-)
http://stids.c4i.gmu.edu/STIDS2012/agenda2012.php


[11:44] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Time to sleep:-)
[11:40] [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]]: thanks Amanda, I will check that reference


[11:45] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: C u
[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great kick-off, Leo & Benjamin!


[11:45] [[GaryBergCross]]: have a good day ..or night... bye
[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: join us again next week 2013_10_31 - Thursday: [[RulesReasoningLP]] mini-series


[11:47] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: thanks for the session! :)
session-02: Concepts and Foundations of Rules and Ontologies: Logic Programs, Classical Logic, and


[11:48] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: But I feel that a meeting like this is not complete...
Semantic Web - I - Co-chairs: [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] & [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]] - watch out for announcement on the mailing


[11:49] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: We could be in touch to comment after the session  
list and the developing session page at:


[11:51] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: but I know its difficult I have not had lunch yet and for @AlexShkotin it's time to sleep
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_31


[11:51] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @NelcyPina - the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list is available for that, if
[11:39] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: Thank you All!


you haven't already joined - please consider subscribing to it at:  
[11:39] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Good bye


http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards ... the mailing list will allow us
[11:39] [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]]: Thanks, all!


to have an asynchronous conversation
[11:40] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Good session.


[11:53] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: ok
[11:42] [[AlexMirzaoff|Alex Mirzaoff]]: Amanda - got it thanks


[11:55] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: closing the chat-room now! Bye, everyone!  
[11:45] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: yw!  


[11:56] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: bye
[11:46] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Thanks all for this kick-off. Looking forward to the mini-series, and glad


[11:56] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Bye. Thank you
these matters are getting some deserved and needed attention.  


[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: -- session ended: 11:40am PDT --  
[11:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: -- session ended: 11:30am PDT --  


-- end of in-session chat-transcript --  
-- end of in-session chat-transcript --  


* '''Additional Community Input'''
* '''Further Question & Remarks''' - please post them to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ ontolog-forum] ] listserv  
** [[KiyongLee|Kiyong Lee]] / [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/2013-10/msg00014.html#nid07 2013.10.15]: ... want to let you know that ISO/TC 37/SC 4/WG 2 has been developing CD 24617-7 Language resource management - Semantic annotation framework - Part 7: Spatial information (Project leader: James Pustejovsky, convenor: KiyongLee). It was just approved to move on the so-called DIS (draft international standard) stage. It not only deals with topological information, but also motions, paths, etc, going beyond the work of MITRE's [[SpatialML]]. A couple of years ago when we started this project, our working group had a joint meeting with geospatial experts, so I think our ISO work may also be related to your various works.
** if you are already subscribed, post to <ontolog-forum [at] ontolog.cim3.net>  
*** [[KiyongLee|Kiyong Lee]] / 2013.10.15: [... further, in regard to James' spatial annotation work, you might want to check out his website at Brandeis, and] the book James Pustejovsky and Inderjeet Mani co-authored, entitled Interpreting Motion: Grounded Representations for Spatial Language, Oxford U Press, 2012, and a review appears in Computational Linguistics, June 2013, vol. 39, no. 2, pages 455-457
** (in case you aren't already a member) do consider joining the [[ONTOLOG]] community and be subscribed to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ ontolog-forum] ] listserv, where general ontology-related topics are discussed among the Ontolog community members. Please refer to Ontolog membership details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J  
 
* '''Further Question & Remarks''' - please post them to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/ ontology-based-standards] ] listserv  
** if you are already subscribed, post to <ontology-based-standards [at] ontolog.cim3.net>  
*** if not your can subscribe at the [ontology-based-standards] listinfo page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards
** (in case you aren't already a member) you may also want to join the [[ONTOLOG]] community and be subscribed to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ ontolog-forum] ] listserv, when general ontology-related topics (not specific to this year's Summit theme) are discussed. Please refer to Ontolog membership details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J  
*** kindly email <peter.yim@cim3.com> if you have any question.  
*** kindly email <peter.yim@cim3.com> if you have any question.  


== Additional Resources  ==
== Additional Resources  ==


* [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series homepage - '''[[OntologyBasedStandards]]'''  
* Homepage for this [[RulesReasoningLP]] mini-series: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RulesReasoningLP
** developing program for this miniseries - ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologyBasedStandards#nid3YS5
* The community brainstorm/planning session during which this "Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications (<nowiki>[[RulesReasoningLP]]</nowiki>)" mini-series came in being - 2013_07_25 - Thursday: Ontolog Ontology-Rules-Reasoning-LogicProgramming-Applications mini-series planning - Chair: [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] - Panelists: [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]], [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]], [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]] - ConferenceCall_2013_07_25
* Home page of the '''Spatial Ontology Community of Practice (SOCoP)''' - http://socop.org
* The [[ConferenceCall_2013_06_20|2013.06.20]] session by Dr. [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] on [[RuleLog]] and the subsequent discussion when this mini-series was envisioned by its co-champions.
* Home page of the [[EarthScienceOntolog]] mini-series we had in 2012 - '''[[EarthScienceOntolog]]'''
* 26-Jun-2008 - Ontolog Panel Discussion on: "Rules in Semantic Web Applications" with panelists Dr. [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] (MITRE; Ontolog) (chair), Dr. [[JosDeBruijn|Jos de Bruijn]] (Free University of Bozen-Bolzano, Italy) & Mr. [[MartinOConnor|Martin O'Connor]] (Stanford-BMIR). Please refer to details on the session page, at: ConferenceCall_2008_06_26
* 12-Jun-2008 - invited speaker Dr. [[ChrisWelty|Chris Welty]] (IBM Research; Chair, W3C RIF Working Group) gave a premier talk on: "RIF: Rules Interchange Format." Please refer to details on the session page, at: ConferenceCall_2008_06_12
* Samuel, Ken; Leo Obrst; Suzette Stoutenberg; Karen Fox; Adrian Johnson; Ken Laskey; Deborah Nichols; and Jason Peterson. 2008. ''Applying Prolog to Semantic Web Ontologies & Rules: Moving Toward Description Logic Programs''. The Journal of the Theory and Practice of Logic Programming (TPLP), Massimo Marchiori, ed., Cambridge University Press - http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1853440 (paywalled.)
* Homepage of the Ontology Summits - see: [[OntologySummit|Ontology Summit]]
* Homepage of the [[Ontolog]] Community - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki
** [[Ontolog]] News and Announcements: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidW
** Archives of noteworthy past event of the [[Ontolog]] Community: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidZ
** [[Ontolog]] Community Membership information: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J


----
----
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== How To Join (while the session is in progress)  ==
== How To Join (while the session is in progress)  ==


* '''1.''' Call in from a phone or from skype: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3YQR
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* '''2.''' Open chat-workspace in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20131024
* '''3.''' Download presentations for each speaker: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V
* '''3.''' Download presentations for each speaker here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24#nid3ZR3
** or, '''3.1''' (access our shared-screen [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|vnc server]], if you are not behind a corporate firewall)
** or, '''3.1''' optionally, [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_24|access our shared-screen vnc server]], if you are not behind a corporate firewall  


[[Category:Event_Meeting]]    [[Category:OntologBasedStandards]]
[[Category:Event_Meeting]]    [[Category:RulesReasoningLP]]








Latest revision as of 06:45, 9 January 2016

RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Thu 2013-10-24

Program: Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications (RulesReasoningLP) mini-series of virtual panel sessions

Topic: RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction

Session Co-chairs: Dr. LeoObrst (Ontolog; MITRE) & Dr. BenjaminGrosof (Coherent Knowledge Systems) ... intro slides

  • Opening Remarks by Community & Technology Leaders and the Mini-series Co-champions: ... slides
    • Professor MichaelGruninger (IAOA; U of Toronto)
    • Professor MichaelKifer (SUNY, Stony Brook)
    • Dr. LeoraMorgenstern (SAIC)
    • Dr. VinayChaudhri (SRI)
    • Dr. HaroldBoley (RuleML; U of New Brunswick)
    • Dr. HensonGraves (Algos Associates; OMG)
    • Professor KenBaclawski (Northeastern U)
    • Dr. JohnSowa (VivoMind Research)
    • Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon-BBN)
    • Mr. PeterYim (Ontolog; CIM3)
  • Survey and Introduction to Key Concepts and the Technology Landscape
    • Dr. LeoObrst (MITRE; Ontolog) - "Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules" ... slides
    • Dr. BenjaminGrosof (Benjamin Grosof & Associates) - "Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies" ... slides

Archives

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 24-Oct-2013
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Attendees

Abstract

RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction ... intro slides

This is the first session of the RulesReasoningLP mini-series. This will be a series of virtual panel sessions, and the associated online discourse, co-championed by some members of the Ontolog community who value the importance of the subject matter and would want to bring together those who are knowledgeable or interested into a dialog. The mini-series program will cover the topics that encapsulates the ontology-driven applications that will generally fall under "Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications."

The RulesReasoningLP mini-series program has come together through two open community brainstorm sessions, held on 2013.07.25 (covering mainly program content) and 2013.09.12 (covering mainly the organization and scheduling).

Joining us at our Launch Event today, are a number of community and technology leaders. They, along with our mini-series co-champions, will be delivering a range of opening remarks, right after our co-chairs' overview of the mini-series program. These remarks will, collectively provide diverse perspectives on why the theme chosen for this mini-series is important, and what we should try to achieve.

After the opening remarks, our co-chairs, Dr. Leo Obrst and Dr. Benjamin Grosof, will provide a survey of the subject matter and the scope of this mini-series. They will each take on some aspects outlined, and provide an introduction on key concepts and technologies involved, to prepare the participants for the exciting program content that will be rolled-out in the ensuing mini-series sessions.

See developing details at: RulesReasoningLP (homepage for this mini-series)

Agenda

RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call

Proceedings

Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131024

2013-10-24 GMT-08:00 [PDT]

[9:28] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the

RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Thu 2013-10-24

Topic: RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch Event - Survey and Introduction )

Session Co-chairs: Dr. Leo Obrst (Ontolog; MITRE) & Dr. Benjamin Grosof (Coherent Knowledge Systems)

Opening Remarks by Community & Technology Leaders and the Mini-series Co-champions:

Survey and Introduction to Key Concepts and the Technology Landscape

  • Dr. Leo Obrst (MITRE; Ontolog) - "Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules"
  • Dr. Benjamin Grosof (Benjamin Grosof & Associates) - "Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies"

Please refer to details on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24

Attendees: AdrianGiurca, AlessandroProvetti, Alex Mirzaoff, Alex Shkotin, Ali Hashemi, Amanda Vizedom,

Benjamin Grosof, Beth Huffer, Brandon Whitehead, Brian Haugh, Christopher Spottiswoode, Dennis Pierson,

ElieAbiLahoud, Francesca Quattri, Francesca Quattri, Frank Chum, Frank Olken, Gary Gannon, GenZou,

Hamizah Hamka, Harold Boley, HassanAitKaci, Henson Graves, Joel Bender, Julien Corman, Karl Hebenstreit,

Ken Baclawski, Leo Obrst, Leo Obrst, Leora Morgenstern, Michael Barnett, Michael Grüninger, Michael Riben,

Mike Dean, Naicong Li, Oscar Hdez?, Paul Fodor, Pavithra Kenjige, Peter P. Yim, Richard Martin, Simon Spero,

SnezanaNikolic, Tara Athan, Todd Pehle, Todd Schneider, Tony Weida, Vinay Chaudhri, Weihong Song, anonymous, ...

proceedings:

[9:26] anonymous morphed into Brandon Whitehead

[9:29] anonymous morphed into Weihong Song

[9:31] Amanda Vizedom: Logistics note, confirming what Peter mentioned last week: you can skype-call

to "joinconference" even if it shows as "offline". I've just gotten on the call that way. Right

click on contact, choose "Call" then choose "Skype call."

[9:35] Ali Hashemi: joinconference is not online but invisible?

[9:36] Simon Spero: joinconference is hiding but working

[9:36] Amanda Vizedom: Ali, can you see my 12:31 comments above?

[9:40] Ali Hashemi: Just saw them, thanks.

[9:31] anonymous morphed into Christopher Spottiswoode

[9:32] anonymous1 morphed into AdrianGiurca

[9:32] anonymous morphed into Naicong Li

[9:32] anonymous1 morphed into HassanAitKaci

[9:33] anonymous morphed into Gary Gannon

[9:35] anonymous2 morphed into Leora Morgenstern

[9:35] anonymous morphed into Karl Hebenstreit

[9:35] anonymous morphed into Francesca Quattri

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Dennis Pierson

[9:38] anonymous morphed into Julien Corman

[9:40] anonymous2 morphed into Michael Riben

[9:40] anonymous1 morphed into Brian Haugh

[9:40] anonymous2 morphed into GenZou

[9:41] anonymous1 morphed into Pavithra Kenjige

[9:41] Pavithra Kenjige: Mute using *6

[9:45] Peter P. Yim: == Leo Obrst and Benjamin Grosof starts the session - please open the slides at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24#nid3ZR3

[9:45] anonymous1 morphed into Beth Huffer

[9:46] Henson Graves: I cannot get to the web page any more under any browser

[9:49] Peter P. Yim: @Henson - the wiki session page should be working properly (I just checked from my own browser)

[9:49] Peter P. Yim: == Opening Remarks: see -

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24#nid3ZQT

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on various opening remarks (2-min. each)

Michael Gruninger

- advocate of expressive, esp. FOL and CL

- need good support for automated reasoning to be really useful

- looking for guidance from reasoning community wrt tools for ontologies

to be evaluated and applied

- looking for test cases from the ontology community

- hope for insights on what is the appropriate ontology language to use

operationally for various applications, not just original development of

ontologies

Leora Morgenstern

- at Leidos, co. new name of split SAIC

- working on DARPA seedling on how to go from regulatory text to executable

rules

. looking at financial, incl. SEC, and other Patriot Act

- extract intermediate representations, incl.

. as rich an ontology as one can get

. dependency graph among rules

. semantic parsing and assignment for roles incl. permission/obligation

- an immediate issue is what representation to use

. RIF is clearly inadequate expressively

. exceptions are such a fundamental concept, incl. priorities

o need language like SILK -- ie Rulelog

Michael Kifer

- think the rules community has the best technology for KR, but somehow not

getting its due in the community

- RIF - systemic problems due to the charter could not produce the dialect

most useful for the rules community, had to focus on BLD which is basically

Datalog and not so useful

- later tried to produce more expressive dialects, which use Well Founded

Semantics, but it's hard to get attention for this

- now I and Benjamin are pushing Rulelog

- would like people to pay more attention to standards, and produce right

standards

- not clear that W3C is the right venue for this, since not clear

they are interested in continuing the RIF effort

- feel that the efforts overall are fractured, incl. there is an effort for

Answer Set Programs but they don't seem interested in non-ASP, only ASP

. need to overcome this fragmentation

Vinay Chaudhri

- (see his slide)

- separation between ontologies and rules is artificial

- focus should be on decidable reasoning

. folks in rule languages community have not focused so much on this,

but rather on expressiveness

. in DB systems, the performance guarantees are crucial

Harold Boley

- (see his slides)

Henson Graves

- (see his slide)

Ken Baclawski

- (see his slide)

John Sowa

- (see his slides, he mainly covered slide 2 verbally)

- recorded (started about 10:14a PDT)

- vagueness and uncertainty are important

. contrast that with very clean model-theoretic kinds of approaches

Mike Dean

- delighted to see this cooperation b/ ontology and rules community,

which have largely been disjoint despite many common goals

Peter Yim

- (see his slide)

- feel this miniseries is a very important next step

[9:53] anonymous1 morphed into Francesca Quattri

[9:53] Peter P. Yim: @speakers - those who do not have slides for their opening remarks are encouraged

to capture their thoughts into this chat-room (or send me their slide(s) which I can add back to the archives)

[9:56] Peter P. Yim: @Leo, @Banjamin - (please remind the participants) we have 46 people on the

phone-bridge, but only 38 in the chat ... please join us in the chat-room if you aren't already ...

ref. details at top of session page

[9:56] anonymous1 morphed into Paul Fodor

[10:01] anonymous morphed into SnezanaNikolic

[9:59] Frank Olken: Leora Morgenstern, Contact me about an upcoming workshop in DC Nov. 14-15 on

information sharing for financial regulation. I think you would find it interesting.

[10:02] List of members: AdrianGiurca, Alex Shkotin, Ali Hashemi, Amanda Vizedom, Benjamin Grosof,

Beth Huffer, Brandon Whitehead, Brian Haugh, Christopher Spottiswoode, Dennis Pierson, ElieAbiLahoud,

Francesca Quattri, Frank Olken, Gary Gannon, GenZou, Harold Boley, HassanAitKaci, Henson Graves,

Julien Corman, Karl Hebenstreit, Ken Baclawski, Leo Obrst, Leo Obrst, Leora Morgenstern, Michael Barnett,

Michael Grüninger, Michael Riben, Mike Dean, Naicong Li, Paul Fodor, Peter P. Yim, Richard Martin, Simon Spero,

SnezanaNikolic, Tara Athan, Todd Pehle, Todd Schneider, Tony Weida, Weihong Song

[10:05] anonymous morphed into Frank Chum

[10:03] Leora Morgenstern: @VinayChaudhri: The reason we need a rule language and not just

ontologies, is that ontologies aren't sufficiently expressive.

[10:03] Leora Morgenstern: We need rules with n-ary predicates, for examples.

[10:03] Leora Morgenstern: We need to represent exceptions and default reasoning.

[10:04] Amanda Vizedom: +1 to remarks about artificiality of separating "rules" from "ontology." IMHO

this creates artificial barriers and obstacles for projects using a representation that separates these.

[10:04] Leora Morgenstern: We can't do all that we need in an ontology.

[10:04] Leora Morgenstern: However, an ontology is an important component in our system.

[10:04] Simon Spero: @LeoraMorgenstern: that's crazy talk. Next you'll want default reasoning or something :-P

[10:04] Leora Morgenstern: @Simon, indeed I do want default reasoning. And yes, crazy talk is what I do.

[10:05] Amanda Vizedom: @LeoraMorgenstern, I think the point is that there is no reason to think of

the rules as something apart from the ontology. That separation is what gives us insufficiently

expressive ontologies. But many ontologies/ representations include rules as an essential part of the ontology.

[10:05] Frank Olken: Leora Morgenstern, I agree with the need for rules with n-ary predicates.

[10:07] Leora Morgenstern: @Amanda, yes, some rules, but not all kinds of rules. Rules with n-ary

predicates? default rules?

[10:07] Todd Schneider: Leora Morgenstern, Frank, The issue is the expressivity of representation

language. Some are less expressive than others.

[10:07] Leo Obrst: The separation of ontology from rules is probably an artifact of semantic web

technologies, i.e., DL-based OWL. Other ontology languages make no such separation.

[10:07] Leora Morgenstern: @Todd, frankly, we need more than FOL.

[10:08] Amanda Vizedom: @LeoraMorgenstern, that will vary with expressiveness of language. And

different use cases will require different expressiveness.

[10:10] Leora Morgenstern: @Amanda, certainly, if you expand your definition of ontology to include

rules with n-ary predicates, default rules, modal operators (deontic logic), etc, then sure. But

then we're just redefining the word, no?

[10:10] Todd Schneider: Leora Morgenstern, for your problem space, probably. The question(s) that

should be asked is what problems are you trying to solve. This should then provide requirements for

the needed expressivity and the language needed (and any supplements).

[10:12] Amanda Vizedom: @Todd, I think that's exactly right. What I took Vinay to be addressing is

this (relatively recent) phenomenon in which people discover that limited-expressiveness languages,

not supporting rules, are insufficient for their needs, and then create or adopt a *separate*,

added-on language for rules. It seems much more sensible instead to move to a higher-expressiveness,

rule-inclusive representation -- of which there are many, already developed and understood.

[10:14] Amanda Vizedom: @LeoraMorgenstern, for many of us who have been working in ontologies for

many years, we are experiencing a redefinition in the other direction. This idea of ontologies as

not including rules is the new one, and when it first started popping up in literature/ conferences,

etc., it was quite puzzling.

[10:15] Leora Morgenstern: @Amanda, I understand your point. But I think you can see where I'm coming

from. It's a complex domain, and we need a very expressive representation, and I don't know of any

ontology that gives what I need. If you can point one out, I'll be happy to look at it,.

[10:21] Amanda Vizedom: @LeoraMorgenstern, I definitely get it. And I started my ontology career

working with Cyc / CycL, so was spoiled at the outset with respect to expressivity and the use of

rules within ontology. I hope that in the process of this miniseries, we see more richness of

options!

[10:15] Beth Huffer: It might help if we are clear about the difference between the language, and the

model that is the basis for assigning meanings to terms in the language. If you think the "ontology"

doesn't include rules, that might be because you are thinking of the ontology as the model. But the

language can surely include terms and functions and operators as needed for describing the domain.

In that sense, there's no need to have separate languages for the "ontology" and the rules. I'm

putting "ontology" in quotes because we are pretty fast and loose in the semantic tech world about

what an ontology is.

[10:19] Todd Schneider: Beth Huffer, an ontology is a model (of some sort).

[10:13] Todd Schneider: Amanda, the largest constraint (from a production viewpoint) is the viability

of the infrastructure to support the choice.

[10:16] Amanda Vizedom: Todd, that's very true. The best-tooled, best-tested, higher-expressiveness

systems are also mostly proprietary. Currently, most(?) or at least many projects require or prefer

an open standard representation langugage, and we lag badly in the support for the

higher-expressiveness options there.

[10:20] Todd Schneider: Amanda, Yes. Any large customer usually prefers or requires products that

comply with [open] standards.

[10:13] Simon Spero: Anyone here who knows anything about Typed Feature Structures and unification?

-P

[10:16] anonymous morphed into Hamizah Hamka

[10:18] Francesca Quattri: @Harold. I am looking at your slides (no. 5). A question about the concept

of "reaction rules". Did I get it right when you suggested that we could reuse the same ontological

rules from an ontology to another in no random order, but according to the subsumed examples that

you proposed? e.g. spatio ontology subsumes to temporal ontology, action ont. to event ont. etc.?

Thank you for the explanation.

[10:41] Harold Boley: @Francesca, the "Reaction Rules" slide gives the big picture of Reaction

RuleML. In the third row, spatio and temporal ontologies are often used together, as are action and

event ontologies. But generally, (Reaction) RuleML provides a 'pluggable' architecture where you can

modularly combine various ontologies. We are currently re-specifying Reaction RuleML 1.0 from XSD in

Relax NG. This would allow MYNG-style customization of Reaction RuleML as we already do for

Deliberation RuleML: http://wiki.ruleml.org/index.php/MYNG

[11:03] Francesca Quattri: @Harold: Among the good things that are in the wiki (shared link) is the

fact that it contains examples (ref. "Example Instance Files for RuleML 1.0"). It helps to frame the

final intent into real world applications.

[10:21] Peter P. Yim: == Leo Obrst presenting: "Survey: Logic, Logic Programming, Ontology, Rules"

[10:24] Simon Spero: Program = algorithm + data . Algorithm = logic + control

. Program = logic + control + data . Ontology = program - control?

[10:31] Francesca Quattri: got the def. of reaction rules. thank you Leo

[10:34] Simon Spero: Prolog is a high level WAM assembler language

[11:24] Simon Spero: WAM - A tutorial reconstruction - http://wambook.sourceforge.net/

[10:38] Benjamin Grosof: What Leo is referring to with LP is often the LP family of KRs, incl.

extensions for skolemization, defeasibility, Rulelog, etc.

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on survey by Leo (see his slide deck)

(Benjamin's note to self:

nice/cute ex. of semantics of material implication and contraposition:

"if pigs can fly ..."" on slide 7)

[10:42] anonymous morphed into Oscar

[10:47] Peter P. Yim: == Benjamin Grosof presenting: ""Survey of Knowledge Representations for Rules and Ontologies "

[10:55] Amanda Vizedom: Regarding @BenjaminGrosof's slide 3 point 3: Agreed, but a notable point:

anyone who takes even an Introduction to "Symbolic Logic" or "Formal Logic" course (usually taught

in a Philosophy or Mathematics department, but often taken much more broadly) in college *does*

learn the rules and key ingredients here. Test: if your Intro to Logic class had variables and

Quantifiers, you learned this. :-)

[10:56] Simon Spero: Imperial College still has mandatory Prolog (sequenced after the first Logic course)

[10:56] Hamizah Hamka: Apologize team of experts. Need to leave too soon for its too late here. Hope

to participate in future event. Have a fruitful discussion.

[10:58] Peter P. Yim: @HamizahHamka - thank you for participating ... all the way from Malaysia

[10:57] Amanda Vizedom: +1 Slide 4: viewing as "rules" or "ontological statements" is largely a

matter of *view* and *use*. In fact, expressive KRs include "syntactic sugar" to allow moving

between the views for many kinds of information.

[11:00] Amanda Vizedom: Big point in support of the "rules" & "ontological knowledge" overlap: The

fundamental ontological relationship of "subclass" or "subtype" is a (usually hard-coded) expression

of a rule pattern: "A is a subclass of B" means: "If x is an instance of A then x is also an

instance of B." It's that fundamental.

[11:00] anonymous morphed into AlessandroProvetti

[11:06] Simon Spero: I'm not sure that the OWL choice of OWA (with no Clark completion) keeps it in

the mainstream of LP?

[11:08] Simon Spero: ( http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~klc/neg.html )

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on survey by Benjamin (see his slide deck)

Cyc is much closer to Rulelog (vs. to FOL or to LP)

[11:12] HassanAitKaci: Before Hilog: lambda-Prolog, and its later incarnation Teyjus (

http://teyjus.cs.umn.edu/ )

[11:21] Harold Boley: Dale Miller's et al.'s lambda-Prolog actually covers a (second-order) fragment

of higher-order logics, not just higher-order syntax: http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~dale/lProlog/

[11:17] Peter P. Yim: == Q&A and open discussion ... please raise your hand, get called upon by the

chair, test your voice, before making your remark

[11:19] HassanAitKaci: [regarding how to be heard on the voice bridge, to make a remark] I'm on

Skype and unmuted ... I don't understand ... [ppy: you will press "*7" on the skype "dialpad" to

un-mute (it maybe hidden under the "Call" dropdown menu) ... after speaking, press "*6" to go back

mute again.]

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on remarks from HassanAitKaci

Hassan: presentations very good, but bit biased in that ignored some

important relevant work

- in particular: lambda calculus, where a function is described as a rule

- that was the basis for the first work on higher-order programming

. Gérard Huet. Résolution d'équations dans les langages d'ordre 1,2,…,ω. Thèse de doctorat d'état, Université Paris 7, 1976

. Dale Miller and Gopalan Nadathur on lambda-Prolog

. Teyjus.cs.umn.edu system work at U Minn by Gopalan Nadathur -- see that for references

- key to cover in miniseries: operational, implementation,

pragmatically how run, how efficient

. Prolog via WAM

. lambda-calculus also implemented via an abstract-machine mechanism

- work on constraint logic programming

. gives Prolog technology much bigger power, opens the LP paradigm to anything

that one can represent as a constraint solving process, incl.

probabilistic or fuzzy or whatever

- there's a new generation that's not very educated in logic programming

in general

. we need to make it learnable without undue effort

Benjamin in response to Hassan: agree

- also very important is modern LP implementationally are tabling techniques,

a kind of caching of work on subgoals and their results

[11:39] HassanAitKaci: http://cs.brown.edu/people/pvh/CPL/Papers/v1/hak.pdf

[11:17] Harold Boley: You can practically explore higher-order Hornlog syntax as developed for Hilog

( http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~warren/xsbbook/node45.html ) and Relfun (

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~boley/FLP/cs6905FLP.pdf ) using the online Relfun interpreter:

http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~vega/relfun-cgi/cgi-bin/rfi.cgi

[11:25] Alex Mirzaoff: Can either of the presenters comment on the application of tmeporal

descriptors as terms? in logic programs?

[11:25] Leo Obrst: As mentioned by Hassan, efficiency is important, and such an area as knowledge

compilation addresses how to "compile" very expressive knowledge into more efficient runtime

representation.

[11:28] Simon Spero: "With imperative programming, you have to tell the computer how to do what you

want. With declarative programming, you have to trick the computer in to doing what you want."

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on verbal Q from Peter P. Yim wrt LeoObrst's presentation, slide 26

Q. Peter asked what Leo meant when he said things like substructural logics and

probabilistic logics would not be include - whether he meant these are not in scope

in this mini-series

A. Leo responded that he just meant that these things will not be included in this

particular presentation (and slide deck)

[11:28] Joel Bender: Is there a description of RuleML and its component "ontologies" that describes

it concepts in a way that is similar to FOAF or RDFS?

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on JoelBender's verbal Q about description of RuleML <--> RDF ontologies as in foaf or whatever

Answer by Harold and Benjamin:

- there are relationships in terms of data models,

. Harold will post some links to chat; also it's important

- it's also important to understand at logical/semantic level, incl. what's

essential in syntax

[11:33] Harold Boley: Data models of XML (positional) and RDF (slotted) can be reconciled:

http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~boley/xmlrdf.html

[11:37] Harold Boley: RuleML uses XML in the object-oriented manner enabled by this reconciliation:

Distinction of capitalized Nodes ('types') and lower-cased edge ('role') XML elmenets.

[11:42] Harold Boley: The RuleML Normalizer RON can automatically generate object-oriented stripes/slots:

http://wiki.ruleml.org/index.php/Specification_of_Deliberation_RuleML_1.0#XSLT-Based_Normalizer

[11:29] Amanda Vizedom: [ref. PeterYim's request to participants to morphed into their real names for

attribution purposes] [I just briefly mis-heard "attribution" as "retribution" :-\!]

[11:33] Peter P. Yim: @Amanda - very funny! :)

[11:34] Amanda Vizedom: @Peter :-)

[11:30] Alex Mirzaoff: Can either of the presenters comment on the application of tmeporal

descriptors as terms? in logic programs? dynamic ontologies?

[11:55] from BenjaminGrosof's notes ...

notes on AlexMirzaoff's verba Q about how things change in time

- A by Leo: can use ontology of time or temporal logic

- A by Benjamin: temporal reasoning is representable within expressive general

logics such as CL and Rulelog;

. practically, defeasibility is often very important to do

temporal reasoning efficiently and tersely, particularly

to represent causality,

incl. projection forward in time or backward in time

(as in abduction and inductive learning)

[11:38] Amanda Vizedom: Last year's "Best Paper Award" recipient at the the STIDS conference

presented a particular ontological representation of time that supported a variety of reasoning

approaches that have been often addressed in ways that have some built-in problems...

[11:41] Amanda Vizedom: @AlexMirzaoff: see Shrag "Best-practice..." at

http://stids.c4i.gmu.edu/STIDS2012/agenda2012.php

[11:40] Alex Mirzaoff: thanks Amanda, I will check that reference

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: great kick-off, Leo & Benjamin!

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: join us again next week 2013_10_31 - Thursday: RulesReasoningLP mini-series

session-02: Concepts and Foundations of Rules and Ontologies: Logic Programs, Classical Logic, and

Semantic Web - I - Co-chairs: Leo Obrst & Harold Boley - watch out for announcement on the mailing

list and the developing session page at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_31

[11:39] Francesca Quattri: Thank you All!

[11:39] Alex Shkotin: Good bye

[11:39] Leo Obrst: Thanks, all!

[11:40] Simon Spero: Good session.

[11:42] Alex Mirzaoff: Amanda - got it thanks

[11:45] Amanda Vizedom: yw!

[11:46] Amanda Vizedom: Thanks all for this kick-off. Looking forward to the mini-series, and glad

these matters are getting some deserved and needed attention.

[11:40] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:30am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --

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