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ConferenceCall 2013 10 10 and ConferenceCall 2013 10 17: Difference between pages

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= [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series session-4 - Thu 2013-10-10 =
= [[OntologyBasedStandards]] miniseries session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 =


Session Co-chair: '''Mr. PeterYim''' (Ontolog; CIM3) & '''Dr. RamSriram'''* (NIST) ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/OntologyBasedStandards-s04_Case-for-QUOMOS_intro--PeterYim-RamSriram_20131010.pdf intro slides]  
Session Co-chairs: '''Dr. [[GaryBergCross|Gary Berg-Cross]]''' (SOCoP) & '''Dr. [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]''' (Athan Services) ...  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf intro slides]  


Topic: '''The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard'''  
Topic: '''Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues'''  


Program / Panelists / Briefings:  
Panelists / Briefings:  


* '''Mr. RalphHodgson''' (TopQuadrant) - "'''The NASA QUDT Ontology & Handbook'''" with an Introduction by '''Dr. PaulKeller'''* (NASA) ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/NASA-QUDT-Handbook-v10--RalphHodgson_20131010.pdf slides]  
* '''Dr. LuisBermudez''' (OGC) - "'''Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web'''" [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf slides]  
* Some User-domain Standards Developers' Perspectives -
* '''Dr. SimonCox''' (CSIRO, Australia) - "'''Observations and Measurements (O&M)'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx slides]  
** '''Mr. SeanBarker''' (BAE Systems) - from '''Engineering & Systems Design''' ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/units-n-measures-in-engineering--SeanBarker_20131010.pdf slides]  
* '''Dr. CoryHenson''' (Kno.e.sis) ''(in absentia)'' "'''W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies'''" ''(presented by Dr. TaraAthan)'' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf slides]  
** '''Dr. SteveRay''' (CMU) & '''TobyConsidine''' (UNC) - from '''Smart Grid standardization''' ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Thoughts-on-modeling-of-units-in-the-smart-grid--SteveRay_20131010.pdf slides]
* '''Dr. TorstenHahmann''' (U of Toronto) - "'''Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf slides]  
** '''Mr. MikeBennett''' (EDM Council) - from '''Financial Industry Business Ontology (FIBO) work''' ''(in absentia)'' ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/FIBO-and-Units-of-Measure--MikeBennett_20131010.pdf slides]  
* QUOMOS Developer Discussant -
** '''Mr. EdBarkmeyer'''* (NIST) - ''' ___ '''  [ slides]
** '''Dr. MatthewWest''' (Information Junction) - from '''ISO 15926-2 work (Industrial Automation and Systems Integration)''' ''(in absentia)'' ... [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/2013-10/msg00003.html input]
** '''Dr. PatHayes''' (IHMC) - '''Making the Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard'''  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Making-the-Case-for-QUOMOS--PatHayes_20131010.pdf slides]  
* '''Open Discussion''' - ALL
** I. given what (standards works) are already available [[UoM|1], do we still see the need for a cross-domain, International Quantity and Units of Measure Ontology Standard (like what the OASIS QUOMOS TC has chartered [[https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/quomos/charter.php 3]]), and
** II. if so, what could/should that QUOMOS ontology standard deliver, to best meet user needs and expectations?


... Remarks: *availability of these individuals may be affected by the US government shutdown (which started on 2013.10.01) and other factors
==[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/ Archives]==


==[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/ Archives]==
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Abstract]]'''  
 
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Agenda]]'''  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|Abstract]]'''  
* '''Prepared presentation material (slides)''' can be accessed by clicking on each of the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/ title links] below:  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|Agenda]]'''  
** '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf 0-Chair] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf 1-Bermudez] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx 2-Cox] ([http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pdf pdf]) ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf 3-Henson (Athan)] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf 4-Hahmann] ]'''  
* '''Prepared presentation material (slides)''' can be accessed by clicking on each of the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/ title links] below:  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Transcript of the online chat]]''' during the session ... ''(raw chat-transcript is available now; cleaned-up version later!)''
** '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/OntologyBasedStandards-s04_Case-for-QUOMOS_intro--PeterYim-RamSriram_20131010.pdf 0-Chair] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/NASA-QUDT-Handbook-v10--RalphHodgson_20131010.pdf 1-Hodgson] [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Hodgson_PDE2013-NASA-QUDT-Handbook-v10_20131010a.pptx (pptx)] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/units-n-measures-in-engineering--SeanBarker_20131010.pdf 2-Barker] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Thoughts-on-modeling-of-units-in-the-smart-grid--SteveRay_20131010.pdf 3-Ray] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/FIBO-and-Units-of-Measure--MikeBennett_20131010.pdf 4-Bennett] ] . [ [ 5-Barkmeyer*] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/2013-10/msg00003.html 6-West] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Making-the-Case-for-QUOMOS--PatHayes_20131010.pdf 7-Hayes] ]'''  
* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards_20131017b.mp3 Audio recording of the session]''' ... [ 1:46:01 ; mp3 ; 12.14 MB ]  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|Transcript of the online chat]]''' during the session  
* '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/Case-for-QUOMOS_20131010b.mp3 Audio recording of the session]''' ... [ 1:36:47 ; mp3 ; 11.08 MB ]  
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective presentations (linked above) opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.  
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective presentations (linked above) opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|Additional Community Input]]'''
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|Additional Resources]]'''  
* '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|Additional Resources]]'''  


== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details  ==
== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details  ==


* Date: '''Thursday, 10-Oct-2013'''  
* Date: '''Thursday, 17-Oct-2013'''  
* Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CEST / 5:30pm BST / 16:30 UTC  
* Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CEST / 5:30pm BST / 16:30 UTC  
** ref: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=10&year=2013&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 World Clock]  
** ref: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=17&year=2013&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 World Clock]  
* Expected Call Duration: 1.5~2.0 hours  
* Expected Call Duration: 1.5~2.0 hours  


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** view-only password: "ontolog"  
** view-only password: "ontolog"  
** if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.  
** if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.  
** people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|slides above]]''' (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.  
** people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the '''[[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|slides above]]''' (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.  


* '''In-session chat'''-room url: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20131010
* '''In-session chat'''-room url: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20131017
** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").  
** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").  
** You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.  
** You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.  
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20131010@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!  
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20131017@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!  


* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''  
* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''  
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* '''RSVP''' '' to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated,'' ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)  
* '''RSVP''' '' to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated,'' ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)  


* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2013_10_10
* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2013_10_17


* Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].  
* Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].  
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== Attendees  ==
== Attendees  ==


* Attended: (incl. all registrants)  
* Attended: (including all registrants)  
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (co-chair)  
** [[GaryBergCross]] (co-chair)  
** [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]
** [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (co-chair)
** [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]
** [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]  
** [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]
** [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]]
** [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]
** [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]  
** [[BethHuffer|Beth Huffer]]
** [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]  
** [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]  
** [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]  
** [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]  
** CoryHenson ''(in absentia)''
** [[DaveMcComb]]  
** [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]  
** [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]  
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]  
** [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]]  
** [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]]  
** [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]]  
** [[EdBernot|Ed Bernot]]
** [[JohnMcClure]]
** [[GaryGannon|Gary Gannon]]
** [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]  
** [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]  
** [[GailHodge|Gail Hodge]]
** [[BrandonWhitehead|Brandon Whitehead]]
** [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]
** [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]
** [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]]
** [[DeborahMacPherson]]
** [[AnneThessen|Anne Thessen]]
** [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]
** [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]
** [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]  
** [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]  
** [[GaryBergCross]]  
** [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]]  
** [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]  
** [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]]  
** [[EmilioSanfilippo|Emilio Sanfilippo]]  
** [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]  
** [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]  
** [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]  
** [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]
** [[NancyWiegand|Nancy Wiegand]]
** [[AleksandraSojic|Aleksandra Sojic]]
** [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]  
** [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]  
** [[PavithraKenjige|Pavithra Kenjige]]  
** [[CeciliaDiSciascio]]
** [[AlanRector|Alan Rector]]  
** [[FranLightsom|Fran Lightsom]]  
** [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]]  
** GenZou
** MasoumehNourollahi
** [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]  
** [[OnnoPaap|Onno Paap]]  
** [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]  
** [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
** [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]]
** [[OliverKutz|Oliver Kutz]]
** [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]]  
** [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  
** [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  
** [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]


* Expecting:  
* Expecting:  
** ...  
** ...  
** ''(please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)''  
** ''(please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)''  


* Regrets:  
* Regrets:  
** [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]  
** [[JamesWilson|James Wilson]]  
** [[ChrisChute|Chris Chute]]
** CoryHenson
** [[StanHuff|Stan Huff]]
** [[HaroldSolbrig|Harold Solbrig]]
** Mark Musen
** [[BobSmith|Bob Smith]]
** [[DeborahMacPherson]]
** [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
** EdBarkmeyer*
** RamSriram* (co-chair)
** PaulKeller*
** ...  
** ...  


== Abstract  ==
== Abstract  ==


'''The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard''' ... [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/OntologyBasedStandards-s04_Case-for-QUOMOS_intro--PeterYim-RamSriram_20131010.pdf intro slides] ]  
'''Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues''' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/OntologyBasedStandards-s05_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards--GaryBergCross-TaraAthan_20131017.pdf overview slides]
 
As with [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|the recent session-4]] (The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard) this is a continuation of the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series that was started in late 2012 as a joint venture of [[OASIS]], [[OMG]], various [[ISO]] working groups, [[IAOA]], [[OOR]] and [[ONTOLOG]]. This session, is part of a program of 8 topics, which are planned to be held over the remaining time in 2013, and partly in 2014.
 
We are over 10 years from Smith and Mark's [http://www.ncgia.buffalo.edu/ontology/SmithMarkIJGIS2001p591_s.pdf Geographical Categories: An Ontological Investigation] one of top 10 cited articles in the geospatial (GS) field. Many technical geospatial standards exist and there is increasing intersection of the GS technical community and the ontological and semantic technology communities. Still many geospatial data & web feature services have standardized terms but lack adequate semantics. Some of the concepts in need of improved semantics, such as quantity and observation, are not specific to the GS domain. This session explores some efforts to reduce the ambiguities in GS definitions, as well as the interrelationships of concepts across GS and related domains. The session builds on work coming out of standards bodies like the Open Geospatial Consortium ([[OGC]]), but also looks to progress on ontologies such as started on the [[W3C]] [http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/ Geospatial Incubator Group] which defined seven categories of Geospatial Ontologies:
 
* Geospatial Feature Ontology
* Feature Type Ontology
* Spatial Relationship Ontology
* Toponym (Place name) Ontology
* Coordinate Reference / Spatial Grid Ontology
* Geospatial Metadata Ontology
* (Geospatial) Web Services Ontology
 
Notable also was the benchmark survey of the GS ontology landscape ([http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=cLKJhI0VkhEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA179&dq=#v=onepage&q = Geospatial Ontology Trade Study]) conducted in 2007 which reviewed spatial conceptualization in foundational and upper level ontologies but also concepts in domain and commercial standards (e.g. the Geography Markup Language [[GML]]) as well as spatial ontologies that are embedded in other ontologies such as [[SWEET]]. Several of the GS ontologies discussed in the trade study have been made available in the [http://socop.oor.net/ontologies SOCoP OOR] as part of NSF's funding of the [[NsfInterop_Grant|SOCoP INTEROP]] effort.


This is a continuation of the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series that got started in late 2012. Since we have already had two content sessions and a planning session, this session is labeled as "session-4". That (3rd) brainstorm/planning session resulted in a [[ConferenceCall_2013_09_12|program of 8 topics]] which we will be covering partly during the rest of 2013, and partly in 2014.  
Another notable development has been the formalization of [[GeoSPARQL]] which was presented previously in the SOCoP [http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NsfInterop_Grant/SemanticsInGeospatialArchitectures_2013_05_07 Virtual Workshop on Semantics in Geospatial and Other Architectures: Design and Implementation] (2013-05-07).  


Among one of the initiatives that spun off from [[OntologySummit2009]]: "Toward Ontology-based Standards" was the effort to work towards a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard ("QUOMOS"). A rather thorough survey of the landscape was done by the Ontolog Forum members, who then progressed the work to a standards development effort under the auspices of the OASIS QUOMOS TC.  
For our session today, we have invited presentations by people involved in the geospatial arena and with standards. Following a very brief overview, they will each present for about 20 minutes on their areas of work and interest. This will be followed by Q & A and an open discussion of issues.  


In parallel, various similar efforts were also active - notably the NASA QUDT (Quantities, Units, Dimensions, and Data Types) Handbook and Ontologies that came out earlier this year. For today's session we have invited [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]], who led the development of this NASA/QUDT work, to give a brief introduction to this QUDT work.  
For more detail on the mini-series please also refer to details on the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series homepage.  


On our panel today, we have invited various User-domain Standards Developers (users of QUOMOS), as well as key members of the QUOMOS team (developers of QUOMOS) to share with us their perspectives. After the QUDT presentation, our other panelists will give short briefings to help kick-start the conversation. An open discussion will ensue, which will revolving around:
=== Briefings  ===


:I. given what (standards works) are already available [[UoM|1], do we still see the need for a cross-domain, International Quantity and Units of Measure Ontology Standard? (like what the OASIS QUOMOS TC has chartered [[https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/quomos/charter.php 3]]), and
* '''Dr. LuisBermudez''' (OGC) - "'''Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web'''"  [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Geospatial-Standards-n-Semantic-Web--LuisBermudez_20131017.pdf slides]  
:II. if so, what could/should that QUOMOS ontology standard deliver, to best meet user needs and expectations?


What we really hope to gain out of today's session, is a dialog between the users and developers of the QUOMOS standard ontology, so that the work products from this effort will not be something that sits on the shelf, but something that meet the needs and expectations of its users.  
::''Abstract:'' ... This talk provides information about Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) activities related to the Semantic Web and gaps. It will highlight work done by OGC subcommittees, working groups and projects of the Interoperability Program. All these activities are using technologies that will allow better capturing and sharing rich semantics in OGC Geospatial standards. The talk will provide details about [[GeoSPARQL]] and OGC URIs. Finally, it will provide some information about ideas for future work, including UML to OWL activities.  


Please also refer to details on the '''[[OntologyBasedStandards]]''' mini-series homepage.  
* '''Dr. SimonCox''' (CSIRO, Australia) - "'''Observations and Measurements (O&M)'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Observations-n-Measurements-OWL--SimonCox_20131017.pptx slides]


== Agenda  ==
::''Abstract:'' ... We have developed OWL ontologies for the ISO/OGC model for Observations, and for other standard geographic information schemas (geometry, time, metadata) upon which it depends. Translation from the original UML to OWL follows the ISO 19150-2 rules. The ontologies have been prepared standalone, to respect the "upper ontology" implied by the ISO UML profile and ISO General Feature Model, and thus avoid introducing external bias. Mapping to other ontologies, such as the SSN ontology, can be done subsequently in RDFS and OWL axioms, and maintained as linksets separate from the structure model. A key issue is whether the OWL representation should exactly reproduce the frame-based UML model from the standard, or be an open-world OWL representation of some underlying model. This affects property scoping and object property restrictions. The latter choice requires more interpretation during conversion. Two incompatible ontologies have been developed through following both approaches.
:: The ISO-based ontology and SSN ontology are almost equally expressive. However, in the SSN ontology alignment with DOLCE is achieved by putting the Observation class in the <nowiki>DUL:SocialObject</nowiki> hierarchy, whereas in O&M it is conceived of as an "Event".
 
* . . . . . ''References:''
** . . [http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1063/paper1.pdf Full Paper in Proceedings of 6th International Workshop on Semantic Sensor Networks]
** . . [http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=32574 ISO 19156:2011]
** . . [http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/om OGC Observations and Measurements, XML and UML]
** . . [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observations_and_Measurements Wikipedia description of O&M]
** . . [https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/wiki/AppSchemas/ObservationsAndSampling A more discursive Wiki for O&M]
** . . [http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling rdf/xml version of the ontology] Note: this imports OWL representations of a number of other ISO models, including the actual observation ontology, either directly or transitively. The domain is temporary, until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not be for a couple of years :-( )


'''The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard'''  
* '''Dr. CoryHenson''' (Kno.e.sis) "'''W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies'''" ''(presented by Dr. TaraAthan)'' - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf slides]


* ''Session Format:'' this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call
::''Abstract:'' ... The W3C Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group published its final report in 2011. One of two main objectives of the group was "to develop of an ontology to describe sensors and sensor networks," and this objective was met with the ontology presented in the final report, with online documentation at the link below. The ontology is domain independent and comprehensive, merging sensor-focused, observation-focused and system-focused views. It is intended to be used in conjunction with domain-specific ontologies as well as ontologies of measurement, time, location and mobility. It is aligned with the DOLCE Ultra Lite upper ontology, and is backward-compatible with the OGC's Sensor Web Enablement (SWE) standard.


* 1. Session opening (co-chair) - [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] & RamSriram* (10 min.) ... [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|slides]]
* . . . . . ''References:''
** . . the presntation at this session is an excerpt (essentially, slides #21~24) from CoryHenson's full presentation, which can be found at: http://www.slideshare.net/andrewhenson/w3c-semantic-sensor-networks-ontologies-applications-and-future-directions
** . . The W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontology - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn
** . . The W3C SSN Final Report - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/XGR-ssn-20110628/


* 2. Briefing on the NASA-QUDT effort - [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]] with intro by PaulKeller* (30 min.)
* '''Dr. TorstenHahmann''' (U of Toronto) - "'''Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology'''" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/Formal-Geospatial-Standards--TorstenHahmann_20131017.pdf slides]  


* 3. Panelists briefings - [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]], [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]], [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]] ... (5 min. each)
::''Abstract:'' ... The terms specified in currently available geospatial standards (and spatial standards in general) largely lack full semantic formalizations.  However, subtle differences abound in the spatial domain, thus it is especially important to formally state what the concepts and relations mean.  
::In this talk, I will outline how spatial standards can be improved by grounding terms in first-order axiomatizations. While I will use examples from hydro ontology, much of the work generalizes to other geospatial domains and beyond, as demonstrated by ongoing work in anatomy.  


* 4. Making the Case for QUOMOS - [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], EdBarkmeyer* (15 min.)
== Agenda  ==


* 5. Contributions from panelists ''in absentia'': [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]], [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]] ... and responses - [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], EdBarkmeyer*, et al. (10 min.)
'''[[OntologyBasedStandards]] Mini-series Panel Session-05'''


* 6. Open discussion - ALL (30 min.) ... (refer to [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|process above]])
:'''Session Format:''' this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call
** (i) do we need a cross-domain, International QUOMOS standard?
** (ii) what do/should we expect from QUOMOS?


* 7. Wrap-up - [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] & RamSriram* (5 min.)  
* 1. Session opening: overview - (co-chairs) - [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (10 min.) ... ([[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|slides]])
* 2. Panel Briefings - [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], CoryHenson (TaraAthan), [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] (20 min. ea)
* 3. Open discussion - ALL (20 min.) ... (ref. [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|process above]])
* 4. Wrap-up - (co-chairs) - [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]


== Proceedings  ==
== Proceedings  ==


Please refer to the [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_10|above]]  
Please refer to the [[ConferenceCall_2013_10_17|above]]  


=== IM Chat Transcript captured during the session ===
===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session===  


see raw transcript [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/chat-transcript_unedited_20131010a.txt here].  
see raw transcript [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/chat-transcript_unedited_20131017a.txt here].  


(for better clarity, the version below is a [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/chat-transcript_edited_20131010b.txt re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript].)
(for better clarity, the version below is a [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-17_Ontologies-for-Geospatial-Standards/chat-transcript_edited_20131017b.txt re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript].)


Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.  
Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.  
Line 188: Line 201:
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Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131010
Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017


2013-10-10 GMT-08:00 [PDT]
2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT]


------  
------  


[9:25] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the  
[9:13] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the  
 
''' [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series session-4 - Thu 2013-10-10 '''
 
Session Co-chair: Mr. [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (Ontolog; CIM3) & Dr. RamSriram* (NIST)
 
Topic: The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard
 
Program / Panelists / Briefings:
 
* Mr. [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]] (TopQuadrant) - "The NASA QUDT Ontology & Handbook" with an Introduction by Dr. PaulKeller* (NASA)
 
* Some User-domain Standards Developers' Perspectives -
 
** Mr. [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]] (BAE Systems) - from Engineering & Systems Design
 
** Dr. [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] (CMU) & [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]] (UNC) - from Smart Grid standardization
 
** Mr. [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]] (EDM Council) - from Financial Industry Business Ontology (FIBO) work (in absentia)


* QUOMOS Developer Discussant -
''' [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 '''


** Mr. EdBarkmeyer* (NIST)  
Session Co-chair: Dr. [[GaryBergCross]] (SOCoP) & Dr. [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] (Athan Services)  


** Dr. [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]] (Information Junction) - from ISO 15926-2 work (Industrial Automation and Systems Integration) (in absentia)  (3YFS)
Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues


** Dr. [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] (IHMC) - Making the Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard
Panelists / Briefings:


* Open Discussion - ALL
* Dr. [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]] (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web"


** I. given what (standards works) are already available [1], do we still see the need for a cross-domain, International Quantity and Units
* Dr. [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)"


of Measure Ontology Standard (like what the OASIS QUOMOS TC has chartered [3]), and
* Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan)


** II. if so, what could/should that QUOMOS ontology standard deliver, to best meet user needs and expectations?
* Dr. [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology"
 
... Remarks: *availability of these individuals may be affected by the US government shutdown (which started on 2013.10.01) and other factors


Logistics:  
Logistics:  


* Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10
* Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17


* (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your <nowiki>RealName</nowiki> (in WikiWord format)
* (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your <nowiki>RealName</nowiki>  


* Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute  
* Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute  
Line 244: Line 237:
** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"


** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)  
** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now  
 
(as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)  


Attendees: [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (co-chair), [[AlanRector|Alan Rector]], [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]], [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]],  
Attendees: [[AleksandraSojic|Aleksandra Sojic]], [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]], [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]], [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]],  


[[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]], [[EdBernot|Ed Bernot]], [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]], [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]], [[EmilioSanfilippo|Emilio Sanfilippo]], [[GaryBergCross]],  
[[CeciliaDiSciascio]], [[DeborahMacPherson]], [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]], [[FranLightsom|Fran Lightsom]], [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]],  


[[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]], [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]], [[JohnMcClure]], MasoumehNourollahi, [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]],  
[[GaryBergCross]], GenZou, [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]], [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]], [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]], [[LamarHenderson|Lamar Henderson]], [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]],  


[[OnnoPaap|Onno Paap]], [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]], [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]], [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]],  
[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]], [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]], [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]], [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]], [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]], [[OliverKutz|Oliver Kutz]],  


[[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], TobyConsidine.
[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]], [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]], [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]


''' Proceedings '''  
''' Proceedings '''  


[9:11] anonymous morphed into [[EmilioSanfilippo|Emilio Sanfilippo]]  
[8:58] anonymous morphed into [[OlaAhlqvist|Ola Ahlqvist]]  
 
[9:23] anonymous morphed into [[EdBernot|Ed Bernot]]
 
[9:25] anonymous morphed into [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]
 
[9:28] anonymous morphed into [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]]
 
[9:28] anonymous morphed into [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]
 
[9:29] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Looks like the Skype "joinconference" is offline. I'll use the phone instead.
 
[9:30] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Skype-out is not just local. Darn.
 
[9:31] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Peter, is "joinconference" out-of-play for this call, or is it being worked on


and possibly coming online?
[9:19] anonymous morphed into [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]


[9:34] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I see "joinconference" fine
[9:19] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people


[9:34] [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]: "joinconference" had problems but seems fine now
from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference"  


[9:33] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: One person in Chapel Hill, one in Raleigh - but no-one in Durham to line-pool
is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or [[VoIP]] line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or


with. Downside of cell-phone only life
google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#


[9:34] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: there have been reports on problems with skype connections to "joinconference" ...
[9:20] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it


if that problem persists for you, please dial (using your phone of skype-out) into the
indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)  


phone number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#
[9:20] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia,  
 
[9:34] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia,  


Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/  
Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/  


[9:32] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Google voice is working fine...
[9:22] [[GaryBergCross]]: Hello all.  
 
[9:38] [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]: "joinconfenece" still not working for me
 
[9:38] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: The local number for raleigh worked
 
[9:34] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: Testing whether I am anonymous
 
[9:34] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: No I am not
 
[9:30] anonymous morphed into [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]
 
[9:32] anonymous morphed into [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]
 
[9:32] anonymous1 morphed into [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]
 
[9:33] anonymous morphed into [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]
 
[9:33] anonymous morphed into [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]
 
[9:36] [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]: How do I unmute?
 
[9:37] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: *7 to unmute (*6 to mute)
 
[9:36] anonymous morphed into [[JohnMcClure]]
 
[9:39] anonymous morphed into [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]
 
[9:39] [[JohnMcClure]]: hi all - mcclure here
 
[9:45] anonymous morphed into [[OnnoPaap|Onno Paap]]
 
[9:48] anonymous morphed into [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]]
 
[9:46] [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]: Where are these slides?
 
[9:49] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: @JamesDavenport: The slides are found by the links on the conference wiki page,
 
immediately after each speaker entry on the agenda.
 
[9:50] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: @James: Actually, more easily found near the top of the page,
 
where you see "0-Chair" "1-Hodgson" etc. Those are the same links.
 
[9:50] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: US Govt not so civilized just now
 
[9:52] [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]]: There is a great three-part BBC miniseries hosted by the mathematician
 
Marcus du Sautoy called "Precision: The Measure of All Things" outlining aspects of the history of
 
measurement.
 
[9:57] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Thanks for that reference, Michael. Put it on my "to watch" list.
 
[9:57] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]] presenting ...
 
[9:58] [[JohnMcClure]]: these seem to be the slides. ..........
 
http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/NASA-QUDT-Handbook-v10--RalphHodgson_20131010.pdf
 
[9:58] List of members: [[AlanRector|Alan Rector]], [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]], [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]], [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]], [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]],
 
[[JohnMcClure]], [[EdBernot|Ed Bernot]], [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]], [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]], [[EmilioSanfilippo|Emilio Sanfilippo]], [[GaryBergCross]],
 
[[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]], [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]], [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]], [[OnnoPaap|Onno Paap]], [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]], [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]], [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]],
 
[[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]], [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]], [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]], [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]], [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]], [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]], vnc2
 
[10:02] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: question for Ralph: if you ask for force times distance, do you get Work or Torque?
 
[10:04] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: @Pat: I presume you get all possible answers with the right dimensionality.
 
[10:06] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: [ref. Ralph's remark that the QUDT work will be available online soon, after
 
another review] Ralph: Just put it out in draft form for testing.
 
[10:07] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: The answer can be probabilistically inferred based on the name of the variable
 
[10:09] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: @Pat: source code is text. Scientists are not very imaginative when it comes to
 
naming variables - only when finding new ways to write fortran in whatever language they're given
 
[10:16] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: What about UCUM?
 
[10:19] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: @Ralph: skos:related denotes all relationships between two "things that
 
something can be about" apart from synonymy and hierarchy.
 
[10:18] [[JohnMcClure]]: question for Ralph: what property(s) are appropriate for associating an
 
instance of a quantity with a resource for which it is an attribute??
 
[10:19] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @[[JohnMcClure]] - wouldn't that be specific to the resource type?
 
[10:20] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: i.e. part of your application
 
[10:21] [[JohnMcClure]]: really, specific to a type? wouldn't they be of a common subtype ?
 
[10:22] [[JohnMcClure]]: e.g. MeasurableThing


[10:22] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: owl:ObjectProperty?
[9:26] anonymous morphed into [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]  


[10:23] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Ah - you want to indicate that it is associated with a measurement procedure
[9:27] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Hi everyone


[10:23] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: In ISO 19156 I coined <<estimatedProperty>> stereotype for UML
[9:30] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Is my chat coming through now?


[10:23] [[JohnMcClure]]: well, perhaps QuantifiedThing - but that's more the base class of each of the types
[9:31] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - Yes


[10:26] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: # good for classes and properties, / for individuals
[9:30] anonymous morphed into [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]  


[10:26] [[JohnMcClure]]: sorry, misspoke a bit - I am talking about a common superproperty that relates
[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into [[RamSriram|Ram D. Sriram]]  


the quantity resource to its attributed resource
[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]


[10:27] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @[[JohnMcClure]] Understood
[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]  


[10:28] [[JohnMcClure]]: so the question is: have you considered naming a super-property (or set of
[9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou


super-properties) most appropriate to relate the measurement resource to its attributed resource
[9:37] anonymous1 morphed into [[CeciliaDiSciascio]]


[10:29] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I think the concern is to explain in what way that is different to owl:ObjectProperty
[9:37] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-)


[10:23] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Ralph: what flavor of OWL is used for the QUDT ontology?
[9:38] anonymous morphed into [[ToddPehle|Todd Pehle]]  


[10:41] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Peter - What used to be called OWL -Lite but a little more than that
[9:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK


[10:41] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Peter - class axioms but no class expressions
[9:42] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great ... thanks, Simon


[10:24] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: expansion of the scale model beyond these "classical" four would be an important topic for QUOMOS
[9:45] [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time?


[10:30] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I would like to know how to extra from QUDT just the subset of axioms that are
[9:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @RichardMartin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings"


needed for a particular application.
(top center of window) helps


[10:38] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Tara - extra -> extract?
[9:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] started the session ... please bring up slides under:


[10:40] [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]]: @Ralph: Are all ontologies that correspond to the content on slide 29
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V


available in the QUDT catalog at http://www.linkedmodel.org/catalog/qudt/1.1/index.html ?
[9:44] anonymous morphed into [[DeborahMacPherson]]


[10:50] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @MichaelGruninger - Not at the 1.1 catalog - will be on the 2.0 catalog -  
[9:47] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category


before that in [[GitHub]] - once NASA HQ review is closed
work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different,


[10:35] [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]: I may not be able to stay for the discussion, but in [[OpenMath/MathML]], we
however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in  


regard 'pico' etc as prefixes, so we can build P*U units from P prefixes and U base units. Units are  
semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain?


again defined in terms of the base units.
[9:51] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and


[10:37] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @JamesDavenport - as does UCUM ...
different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of


[10:37] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @James this is how QUDT is doing it too
this in the talks starting with Luis....


[10:50] [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]: @RalphHodgson Then I must have misheard, I thought he said that kilonewtons
[9:47] anonymous morphed into [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]  


and piconewtons were units
[9:48] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]] presenting ...


[10:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Ralph Where are upgraded QUDT ontologies, with extra properties on QuantityKind etc?
[9:52] anonymous morphed into [[RichardMartin|Richard Martin]]  


[10:42] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Simon - QUDT release 2 has not been released yet - it will be once the NASA
[10:05] [[GaryBergCross]]: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations.


HQ review is done
[10:11] [[DeborahMacPherson]]: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks


[10:42] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Simon - expect schemas in next 4 weeks
[10:18] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here:


[10:43] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Simon - on [[GitHub]]
http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/geo4niem


[10:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Ralph - no community review :-(
[10:10] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] presenting ...


[10:44] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Simon - community review will follow NASA internal review for some things.  
[10:14] [[GaryBergCross]]: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30.  


Other community reviews will happen - e.g. Life Sciences
[10:21] [[GaryBergCross]]: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing.  


[10:50] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Ralph - why not put them up on [[GitHub]] early so you can get pull requests
--[10:22] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Voice connection broken!


[11:01] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @simon - we can do some release before NASA HQ review is done - this is coming
--[10:22] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Simon, we can't hear you.


down to what cycles we have to get this done "now" - for me "now" is next 2 months
--[10:22] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Simon?


[11:03] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Ralph - thanks - thats good,
--[10:22] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in


[10:45] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Simon - vaem and provo might provide the right semantics for mentioning other things out there
--[10:23] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point?


[10:50] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: @Ralph : that's how the ISO C++ standards are being developed now
--[10:24] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question if anyone sees [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] on skype] I do


[10:29] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]] briefing ...
--[10:24] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: great


[10:29] [[JohnMcClure]]: URL please for Sean
--[10:24] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: I have tried skyping him


[10:30] [[JohnMcClure]]:  
--[10:25] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on.


http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/units-n-measures-in-engineering--SeanBarker_20131010.pdf
--[10:25] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I'm back now


[10:31] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @SeanBarker - oops! ref the format conversion error on slide#2; I will update the
--[10:27] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - great, thank you!  


slide deck after the session
--[10:26] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: we were at the ISO 19150-2 (2015?) slide (slide #7)


[11:55] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: re [10:31] corrected [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]] slides now uploaded and linked to the page
[10:24] anonymous morphed into [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]  


[10:36] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] briefing ...
[10:30] anonymous morphed into [[NikkiaAnderson|Nikkia Anderson]]  


[10:42] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[TobyConsidine|Toby Considine]] making his observations ...  
[10:27] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and SimonCox.  


[10:44] anonymous1 morphed into [[OnnoPaap|Onno Paap]]
It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago:  


[10:48] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]] presenting ... please bring up his slides - under:
http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/gswie


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10#nid3YG6
[10:32] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL


[10:51] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Indeed the definition of certain units changes (discretely) in time based on,
mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then


say, versions of the VIM.
generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these


[10:57] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: [ref. PatHayes' slide #5] Stevens' scale is not enough.  
issues are still very much live.  


[10:59] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Tara, by all means point me to other ideas.  
[10:39] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the


[10:57] [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]: If CL, what tools implement it that are available for lowly system
widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe.


architect trying to use these ontologies right now?
[10:40] [[GaryBergCross]]: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee.


[10:59] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Bobbin: There's Hets to some extent [ PeterYim: ref.  
[10:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ...  


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10#nid2HO6 ]  
[10:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [responding to TaraAthan's remark that CoryHenderson cannot be with us today, and


[10:59] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Bobbin, CL has parsers and reasoners (consistency checkers) but not al the
therefore she is presenting Cory's work] I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next


connections to Web machinery (not yet).
week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions!


[11:00] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Bobbin: Also Fabian's [[PrIKL]] (which maybe he will have some time to work on this
[10:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Maybe he's travelling now ...


week :-)
[10:42] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up at this time slot.


[11:00] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Thats the reasoner I was thinking of :-)  
[10:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user-


[10:59] [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]: URL to Ontology Based Standards SIG? ... [ PeterYim: see -
(observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to [[SensorML]],


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologyBasedStandards ]
consumer-centric motivated O&M


[10:56] [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]]: Peter and all, apologies for dropping off - I've really enjoyed some of the
--[10:45] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Now we lost Tara?


discussion and had hoped to jump in on FIBO (and on the Date Time vocabulary work ongoing at OMG,  
--[10:46] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: Tara, we cannot hear you


which is now in UML, CL, OCL, and OWL), but have a call I couldn't get out of. Will follow the
--[10:46] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment


discussion, though. ... [ PeterYim: Thank you, Elisa ]  
--[10:46] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I'll try to reconnect


[10:58] [[JamesDavenport|James Davenport]]: @all, sorry, need to go now
--[10:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great!


[10:59] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @JamesDavenport - Thanks for joining us, James
--[10:47] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: skype froze on me


[11:13] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @patHayes - thanks - I would like to review some aspects of the work with you
--[10:47] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: take your time, Tara


[11:00] == [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]] providing an overview on the role [[IAOA]] is playing to foster
--[10:50] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I'm back now, calling in from my landline


[[OntologyBasedStandards]]  
[10:50] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: Sorry, I cannot see the slides...


[11:00] [[JohnMcClure]]: 'ontology-BASED standards' seems quite different from 'standard ontology',
[10:51] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :(


right? An ontology-based std would be an ontology for specification of a standard, right?
[10:52] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: let me see ...


[11:01] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: JohnMclure: That's what some of the later sessions are aiming at
[10:59] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox


[11:01] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: [[JohnMcClure]], that would make sense but its not the way the term is used, I think.
[10:52] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the  


[11:04] [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Gr&uuml;ninger]]: @[[JohnMcClure]]: "Ontology-based Standards" encompasses a range of efforts --
slides and run them on your own machine locally


ontologies that are a part of a standard, ontologies that are being standardized, and ontologies
[10:47] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that  


that are used to augment an existing standard to provide unambiguous definitions of terms
way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social


[11:04] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: [[JohnMcClure]]: I think that there are use cases in play for both senses you
means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and


mention: (a) standards that specify that all data of some type must be captured / exposed in terms
typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in  


of some ontology, and (b) standards that are themselves expressed in (& made precise, machine
epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way.


readable, etc., by) some ontology. But certainly, the two uses are different.  
[10:48] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation.  


[--:--] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @[[JohnMcClure]] - we scoped this out when the initiative kicked off in 2012 - see:
[10:49] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_10_25 ... in particular,
[10:49] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @JoshLieberman - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either


ref. slide #3 if the "[6-IAOA-Gruninger]" presentation there
way has special areas of emphasis and dilution.  


[11:04] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @MichaelGrunninger - would appreciate a pointer to ontology registry web page
[10:50] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question on where one can find the owl


- rhodgson[at]nasa.gov - thanks
axiomatization of the various ontologies mentioned in the preseentation] Start here:


[11:05] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @RalphHodgson: - access to various instances of the open ontology repository - goto http://oor.net
http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/


[11:02] == Open discussion ...
[10:50] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not


[11:02] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: who is speaking?
be for a couple of years :-( (


[11:03] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Pat - [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] is speaking now
[10:51] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: if you ask for http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling you


[11:02] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: tnx
should get the lot


[11:04] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @TaraAthan - (further to above [10:57]) Are the SSStevens cases wrong, or just incomplete?
[10:51] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical


[11:05] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Ah, OK. Yes, the scale is not the unit.
concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a


[11:05] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Tara - could you send me a pointer to what you just mentioned? Thanks - rhodgson[at]nasa.gov
particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement.  


[11:06] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @Ralph - yes, I'll have to dig these up in my reference manager.
{{{
[10:52] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We need here define physical algorithms (observation|measurement) - this is a challenge:-)
}}}


[11:05] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Pat On your last slide you discuss 7 concepts. QUOMOS seems to include
[10:53] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server


Dimension too. Is that important to add to your list?
so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a


[11:06] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Gary Yes., I had dimension there but removed it because it has several meanings
surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ...  


and I wanted to get them straightened out first .
[10:56] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: [[SensorML]], and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems


[11:07] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Plug for next week - the idea of "measurement" is related to the concept of "observation",
[10:56] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: ([[SensorML]] is OGC standard)


which addressed by a couple of our speakers (SimonCox and Cory Henson) one week from now
[10:57] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Tara - perhaps this one:


[11:10] [[GaryBergCross]]: @pat You have Measurement. Act of taking a measure value, or the result of
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Incubator_Report#Aligning_the_SSN_Ontology_and_the_core_SSO_design_pattern_with_DOLCE


such an action. This involves the idea of Observation and I would expect this to be explored by
[10:59] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support


@SimonCox in next weeks session of spatial standards and his talk on Observations and Measures.
provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model


[11:09] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: [joking on the typo (now corrected) Tara had to correct in her last post] what we
<nowiki>


need is a generic English vowel.
[11:01] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]:


[11:09] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: http://sw.opencyc.org/2012/05/10/concept/en/FundamentalUnitType
SSN class </Users/taraathan/Downloads/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--[[CoryHenson_SSN]]-subset-TA_20131017.pdf (is subclass of) DUL class


[11:10] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: http://sw.opencyc.org/2012/05/10/concept/en/UnitOfMeasure
Deployment < Process(DUL)


[11:09] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: @Ralph And the 'car speed' concept is and instance of the 'velocity' QuanityKind
SensorOutput < InformationObject


[11:10] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Bruce - speed is a property of the car - a property is a quantity that has a
Observation < Situation


quantityKind - in this case velocity
Device < DesignedArtifact


[11:10] [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: I need to leave, I'm afraid. Will review the rest of the session from the archives.
System, Sensor, Platform < PhysicalObject


[11:11] [[SeanBarker|Sean Barker]]: On uncertainty: I did not have time to mention the whole area of tolerances on
SensorInput < Event


engineering dimensions, covering not only variations in lenghts, but other measures such as straightness or circularity.
Process(SSN) < Method


[11:11] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Sean +1
[[FeatureOfInterest]] < Event or Object


[11:12] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Sean: The cyc [[UoM]] functions were/are variadic
Property < Quality


[11:12] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: tnx
ObservationValue < Region (a region in a dimensional space which can be used as a value for a quality


[11:12] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Sean: a single value is a point
of an Entity e.g. TimeInterval, SpaceRegion, PhysicalAttribute, Amount, . . .)


[11:13] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Sean: two values is a closed real interval
</nowiki>


[11:13] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Sean: (or at least a closed interval)
[10:59] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]] presenting ...


[11:13] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Simon, a point in 3space is 3 values, surely.
--[11:03] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: Has the conference call failed or just me?


[11:14] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: ScalarPoint, sorry
--[11:03] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: just you


[11:14] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Pat or is it a single value that can only be expressed with 3 numbers
--[11:03] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: Still going on.


[11:15] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: change of coordinate reference system does not change position, only the way it is expressed
--[11:04] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: sorry [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]], please dial back in again


[11:15] [[SimonSpero|Simon Spero]]: Also, the third dimension is just a theoretical hypothesis -
--[11:05] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: (@Bruce - skype can't see you, maybe restart skype)


see e.g. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/201/201-h/201-h.htm
--[11:05] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: @Peter Back in


[11:16] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: I think a point in actual space is a physical system (hate that word) which has
--[11:06] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @BruceSimons - great!


measurable properties, such as where it is. The coordinates are the measurements on some scale.  
[11:05] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @TorstenHahmann +1 on the lesser emphasis on relationships.  


Does that make sense?  
[11:13] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: how is "water" defined- does it include dissolved substances?  


[11:16] [[HaroldBoley|Harold Boley]]: As mentioned by others, I think metrologists should be involved early on in a
suspended particles? fish?


"Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard. For practical applications, Canadian
[11:13] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Crocodiles?


metrologists could be reached via NRC's "Measurement science and standards":  
[11:13] [[GaryBergCross]]: With whatever time we have for discussion presenters may have a chance for


https://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/rd/mss/index.html
discussing of each other's ideas.  


[11:17] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Harold, thanks. I have to say, metrologists in my experience do have rather
[11:14] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Crocodile-infested water is surely a sub class of water, with a restriction on


intense intellectual turf battles.
the property "infestedBy"?


[11:14] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=quomos
[11:14] [[DeborahMacPherson]]: Need to take off - thanks for the interesting presentations!


[11:16] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: another multidimensional quantity is color (RGB, HSV)
[11:14] [[GaryBergCross]]: @tara there may be bio, geo and chemical constituents of a water body.


[11:17] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Tara - ooh - that is a complex area. Depends on human optical-perceptual system.
[11:15] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @gary - thx


[11:17] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: yeah, fun
[11:16] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @SimonCox @TaraAthan - One issue with the SSN and the OM model is that SSN


[11:17] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We should collect units of measure by science (from physics to biology).  
doesn't treat Sensor as a subclass of Process (in O&M called Procedure). In SSN a Sensor can


Definitions come from particular science and its formalization.  
implement some Sensing, and Sensing is sub class of Process, but I don't see this as a big issue.  


[11:18] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @AlexShkotin, also commerce and engineering.
[11:16] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Presumably, and noting the particular wording on slide 10, any of those


[11:18] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: units for currency - highly dependent on time
things could be *in* the water body, but they would not be *constituents* of the water body.


[11:19] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Hopefully we can make it simply a matter of temporal indexing, so the unit might
[11:17] [[GaryBergCross]]: Reminder the free Nov 18-19 SOCoP workshop page is at


be dollars-at-<dateTime> and the like.  
http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDC2013. Please come...this means you Amanda and Josh.  


[11:19] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @AlexShkotin - this is how QUDT is organized - domains of science and
[11:17] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: Noted, Gary. Will email you about that.


engineering - concept of discipline is distinct from domain  
[11:18] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: SSN and O&M are each self-consciously domain-neutral


[11:20] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Another is hardness, which has many scales depending on measurement method, with
[11:19] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Thanks @Amanda - Crocodiles may be constituents of water-body, but not of water


complex nonlinear contextual mappings between them.
[11:19] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: @SimonCox - Thereby supporting documentation of hydrological samples and


[11:21] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: I think an ontology at that point just has to classify them and hand conversions
measurement of the ppm of crocodiles.


over to a specialist.
[11:19] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: !


[11:21] [[GaryBergCross]]: people may be interested in the Ontology of Units of Measure and Related
[11:20] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Good insight. infestedBy and similar properties would be properties of  


Concepts paper on OM (Observation and Measurement)
WaterBody not of Water as such.


http://www.semantic-web-journal.net/sites/default/files/swj177_7.pdf
[11:20] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Torsten, you are on the way to build axiomatic theory of hydrology!


[11:20] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: there is bizarre stuff like atomic weights as well - it's dependent on space
[11:21] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: == Open Discussion ...


[11:22] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Tara, how?
--[11:23] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Can't hear Luis


[11:22] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: the isotopic ratio of elements is variable in space - it matters for e.g. geology
--[11:23] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: audio problems


[11:23] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: the atomic weights published in the periodic table are "typical" values
--[11:23] [[GaryBergCross]]: a pulsing sound on the audio.


[11:23] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Tara, do you mean the actual ratio varies with eg sample, or that the idea of the
--[11:24] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Having problems with skype


ratio itself is context-dependent?  
--[11:24] [[GaryBergCross]]: Luis - can you type your point in??  


[11:26] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @Pat - there is a standardized value of atomic weight, and there are corrections
--[11:24] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: please type here @LuisBermudez


that may be made in the cases the accuracy matters - not sure if these corrections have been standardized.
[11:24] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: yes, infestedBy crocodiles would be a property of a WaterBody, not of the water


[11:24] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Pat - it has measurable properties OK (position), and vector decomposition as
(which may flow further downstream to a not-infested water body)  


well. But position is conceptually a single value?
[11:25] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Are - distinguish between solution and suspension!


[11:25] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Simon, good question, depends on your physics I think. Certainly it is in e.g. geography.  
[11:26] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: ... and colloid (to complete the set)


[11:25] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Pat - geography is one of the places I play!  
[11:26] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: We'll be getting into colloids next!  


[11:25] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Ralph, I just want to say we formalize some science not just units of it:-)  
[11:26] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: (snap)  


[11:25] [[RalphHodgson|Ralph Hodgson]]: @Alex +1
[11:26] [[FrancescaQuattri|Francesca Quattri]]: Thank you to the Speakers. Looking forward to the next session.


[11:26] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @SimonCox Me too, especially maps.  
[11:27] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Hmmm. Ontology begat chemistry / vv


[11:26] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: :-)
[11:28] [[AmandaVizedom|Amanda Vizedom]]: I believe that those sorts of chemistry distinctions have been formalized...


[11:25] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-17) for the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] miniseries
now I need to find a link to back that up...  


session-5: "Ontology-based Standards in Geospatial Domains" - co-chairs: [[GaryBergCross]] & [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]] -  
[11:28] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Josh - observing vs reasoning. Some science involves more of the latter (e.g. geology)


ref. developing session details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17
[11:29] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Torsten, maybe we should speak about ecological system in hydrology.  


[11:26] [[BruceSimons|Bruce Simons]]: Thanks all
[11:29] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: sensing vs. reasoning


[11:27] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Tara. Hmmm. I was hoping that the ontology could assume properties were real,  
[11:26] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Torsten, How far do you think OGC should go standardizing Geospatial Ontologies?


then deal with accuracy of measurement later.
[11:29] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: @Luis: good question. I think being able to verify the consistency of the standards


[11:27] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: So there is AN atomic weight, but we might not know it exactly. But for isotope
would be a reasonable goal. Of course, it is probably out of scope to formalize all kinds of geographic toponyms


mixtures, maybe not. :-((
[11:29] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: I might think of it more as established versus contingent processing of a measurement.  


[11:28] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Tara atomic weight is calculated by q-mechanics;-)
[11:30] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Torsten thank you will follow up with you later about what you mean by "consistency of standards"


[11:28] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @Pat - AN atomic weight based on the actual distribution of isotopes in the
[11:31] [[User:TorstenHahmann|Torsten Hahmann]]: @Luis: sure, would be happy to discuss it in more detail


entire universe? That is certainly time-dependent.
[11:34] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Torsten I agree that it can go both ways and does, but perhaps standard


[11:29] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Doesn't each isotope have its own atomic weight, so we are here talking about mixtures?
bodies need to support the heavy work.


[11:29] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Pat, exactly:-)
[11:35] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: @Gary et al. I lost my audio


[11:30] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: OK, then that I think we can handle.
[11:36] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Simon - good point to put on record the crisis of geospatial standards because of limitations


[11:30] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @Alex - atomic weight is the old-fashioned term for - I am talking about
[11:42] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Gary - I mentioned 'crisis' in standards - adoption lags development, which lags


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_atomic_mass
design, by years or decades.  


[11:31] [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]: I think maybe Tara is saying that (a lot of) things we express are in the
[11:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: We already know that OGC interface standards are out of date, yet institutions are  


end only approximate, and we aren't dealing with that in ontologies (right now)...? Tara?
only now adopting and deploying


[11:32] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Each isotope has its own atomic mass, an element as a whole has an atomic weight.
[11:43] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: There are some thing which will endure however: mostly information side (models)


I am talking about standards. There is a standard relative atomic mass for each element.
[11:38] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Standards should use CNL first of all - like ACE;-) It's a step to formalization:-)


[11:32] [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]: An atomic weight is a 'name' for an approximation?  
[11:39] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: CNL?  


[11:33] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Tara, thanks, this is why we need formal definitions:-)
[11:39] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Controlled Natural Language


[11:34] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: OK, I will take that wikipedia article as a challenge. The ontology should provide
[11:40] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: But they are already committed to UML, and have big corpus ...  


enough concpets and distinctions that one can make sense of the discussion in that article.
[11:41] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Simon, then we need converter from UML to CNL;-)


[11:34] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: And now I have to leave to do some completely non-ontological stuff.  
[11:41] [[GaryBergCross]]: @Alex CNL yes +1.  


[11:35] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: @Pat - yes, that is the point I was trying to get across - is something like
[11:42] [[GaryBergCross]]: [[JohnSowa|John F. Sowa]] made some efforts to describe a CNL for Common Logic.


atomic weight a quantity kind different from atomic mass?
[11:43] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: We convert our petrology DB to ACE manually:-(


[11:36] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @TaraAthan, yes.
[11:43] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: @Gary, this is a trend CNL - FOL:-)


[11:36] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: And "context" of particular science:-) Well, discipline;-)
[11:38] [[GaryBergCross]]: Simon's observations are similar to what Bill McCarthy presented: Tension


[11:37] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Tara - and the hardnesses all measure different properties, though related.  
between a theoretical ontology community and a standards community.  


Contrast temperature scales, for example.  
[11:40] [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: @Gary that's something I think Bill and I will pick up on in our session.  


[11:37] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: Pater, is this IRC trace recorded for later reference?
[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: ... we have a really distributed participation today ... quite a number of


[11:37] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Ralph - Discipline vs. domain?
countries are represented here: I can recognize (at least) folks from Australia (Melbourne and Sydney),


[11:38] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Good talk. Sorry, I need to leave. C u.
Canada, China (Hong Kong), Germany, Romania, Russia, United Kingdom, United States and Venezuela


[11:38] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: @Tara - Hardness (using traditional Moh's scale) is definitely *not* a 'quantity'
[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: To get involved in the [[OntologyBasedStandards]] dialog, please subscribe yourself to


as the units are not convertible.
the [ontology-based-standards] list, if you haven't already -


[11:39] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Peter, OK I see it is.  
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards


[11:40] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Pat - yes ... as always - full proceedings, including slides, chat-transcript,
[11:39] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-24) for the [[RulesReasoningLP]]: Mini-series Launch


audio recording, etc. will be openly available online (say, in a day or two) - check back at the
Event - co-chairs: [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]] & [[BenjaminGrosof|Benjamin Grosof]] - ref. developing session details at:


(same) session page - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10 ...and look
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24


under the "Archives" section
[11:40] [[GaryBergCross]]: Thank you all. we could have had 2 sessions on this. I hope the conversation


[11:40] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: @Simon, but that is still a measurement scale which measures something. That's
continues in the Ontolog and SOCoP forums.  


what I needed the scale type classification for, to distinguish the mere ordering from a
[11:40] [[JoshLieberman|Josh Lieberman]]: Thanks Gary and Tara for organizing.


units/quantities scale.
[11:40] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: How fast can retrofit happen?


[11:41] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Nominal vs Ordinal, ratio vs interval
[11:40] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Thank you all:-)


[11:42] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: also circular, hierarchical,
[11:41] [[GaryBergCross]]: Thanks again Simon....it was great to have you on.


[11:40] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: I hope we can pick up these discussions in a revived QUOMOS (I am a TC member).
[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: sorry about the connection problems today! (I'll clean that up in the recording)  


[11:41] [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]: OK, really gotta go now. Bye.  
[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great session! thanks everyone ...  


[11:41] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: same here- bye
[11:41] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: Thanks to the speakers, and also the attendees for some great questions.


[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @TaraAthan - look forward to talking to you in the OASIS QUOMOS TC
[11:44] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Time for shower/breakfast


[11:33] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: A clarification - [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]] does not represent UCUM, just has used it a lot!
[11:44] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: ;-)


[11:33] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Thanks, Simon ... duly noted!
[11:44] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: Time to sleep:-)


[11:33] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: UCUM does not formalize quantity-kinds, only units. Focusses on unit conversions.
[11:45] [[AlexShkotin|Alex Shkotin]]: C u


Leaves the other stuff for us (?)
[11:45] [[GaryBergCross]]: have a good day ..or night... bye


[11:34] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: But UCUM grammar for building unit symbols from primitives is worth inspection
[11:47] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: thanks for the session! :)


[11:35] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: (UCUM comments 'for the record' as I don't think voice was recorded) ... [
[11:48] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: But I feel that a meeting like this is not complete...  


PeterYim: @SimonCox - voice *is* recorded and will be archived and made available openly. ]
[11:49] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: We could be in touch to comment after the session


[11:36] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @Simon & All - We have had conversations about UCUM with [[StanHuff|Stan Huff]] and  
[11:51] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: but I know its difficult I have not had lunch yet and for @AlexShkotin it's time to sleep


[[GuntherSchadow|Gunther Schadow]] earlier - see under:
[11:51] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: @NelcyPina - the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list is available for that, if


http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard#nid2116
you haven't already joined - please consider subscribing to it at:  


[11:42] [[SimonCox|Simon Cox]]: Bye
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards ... the mailing list will allow us


[11:41] [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]: bye
to have an asynchronous conversation


[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: thanks for joining us from Romania, Elizabeth
[11:53] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: ok


[11:42] [[ElizabethFlorescu|Elizabeth Florescu]]: my pleasure, as always ;-)
[11:55] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: closing the chat-room now! Bye, everyone!


[11:42] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: bye everyone! Thank you all for the participation and contribution!
[11:56] [[NelcyPina|Nelcy Pina]]: bye  


[11:42] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: closing the chat-room now
[11:56] [[LuisBermudez|Luis Bermudez]]: Bye. Thank you


[11:26] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: -- session ended: 11:26am PDT --  
[11:41] [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: -- session ended: 11:40am PDT --  


-- end of in-session chat-transcript --  
-- end of in-session chat-transcript --  


* '''Additional Community Input'''  
* '''Additional Community Input'''  
** PaulBrandt / 2013.10.08-1659 CEST: reserach work proposed an ontology, ContoExam, to support semantic interoperability in sensor network - sensor applications [[http://www.es.ele.tue.nl/~tbasten/papers/CICARE2013%20-%20Brandt%20et%20al%20-%20Semantic%20interoperability%20in%20sensor%20applications%20-%20final%20version.pdf 1]], that addresses not only quantities and their measurements (as defined by the VIM3 [2]) but extends this to include quantities that cannot be expressed in magnitudes, e.g., examinations of properties such as blood type, as proposed by Dybkaer [3]. In addition, we included context [4] since that is highly relevant to support correct interpretation towards the use of the quantity/property - ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/2013-10/msg00005.html
** [[KiyongLee|Kiyong Lee]] / [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/2013-10/msg00014.html#nid07 2013.10.15]: ... want to let you know that ISO/TC 37/SC 4/WG 2 has been developing CD 24617-7 Language resource management - Semantic annotation framework - Part 7: Spatial information (Project leader: James Pustejovsky, convenor: KiyongLee). It was just approved to move on the so-called DIS (draft international standard) stage. It not only deals with topological information, but also motions, paths, etc, going beyond the work of MITRE's [[SpatialML]]. A couple of years ago when we started this project, our working group had a joint meeting with geospatial experts, so I think our ISO work may also be related to your various works.  
** [[JohnMcClure]] / 2013.10.09-1447 PDT: some work on UNECE measures that should referenced to some extent. See their to the "nbr" namespace: for [http://www.datawiki.co.za/datawiki/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=nbr%3A&namespace=102 properties], the link for [http://www.datawiki.co.za/datawiki/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=type%3Anbr&namespace=0 numeric TYPES] - ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2013-10/msg00020.html
*** [[KiyongLee|Kiyong Lee]] / 2013.10.15: [... further, in regard to James' spatial annotation work, you might want to check out his website at Brandeis, and] the book James Pustejovsky and Inderjeet Mani co-authored, entitled Interpreting Motion: Grounded Representations for Spatial Language, Oxford U Press, 2012, and a review appears in Computational Linguistics, June 2013, vol. 39, no. 2, pages 455-457


* '''Further Question & Remarks''' - please post them to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/ ontology-based-standards] ] listserv  
* '''Further Question & Remarks''' - please post them to the [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-based-standards/ ontology-based-standards] ] listserv  
Line 900: Line 783:
== Additional Resources  ==
== Additional Resources  ==


* [1] A survey of "Units of Measure" standards efforts - '''[[UoM]]'''
* [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series homepage - '''[[OntologyBasedStandards]]'''  
 
* [2] Earlier community effort leading to QUOMOS development work - '''[[UoM_Ontology_Standard]]'''
 
* [3] [[OASIS]] '''[https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=quomos QUOMOS TC] Charter''' - https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/quomos/charter.php
 
* [4] '''OntologySummit2009 - "Toward Ontology-based Standards"'''
** [[OntologySummit2009_Communique]]
 
* [5] [[OntologyBasedStandards]] mini-series homepage - '''[[OntologyBasedStandards]]'''  
** developing program for this miniseries - ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologyBasedStandards#nid3YS5  
** developing program for this miniseries - ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologyBasedStandards#nid3YS5  
* Home page of the '''Spatial Ontology Community of Practice (SOCoP)''' - http://socop.org
* Home page of the [[EarthScienceOntolog]] mini-series we had in 2012 - '''[[EarthScienceOntolog]]'''


----
----


''For the record ...''
''For the record ...''  


== How To Join (while the session is in progress)  ==
== How To Join (while the session is in progress)  ==


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----


[[Category:Event_Meeting]]    [[Category:OntologBasedStandards]]    [[Category:UoM_Ontology_Standard]]
[[Category:Event_Meeting]]    [[Category:OntologBasedStandards]]









Latest revision as of 06:45, 9 January 2016

OntologyBasedStandards miniseries session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17

Session Co-chairs: Dr. Gary Berg-Cross (SOCoP) & Dr. Tara Athan (Athan Services) ... intro slides

Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Dr. LuisBermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web" slides
  • Dr. SimonCox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)" - slides
  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) (in absentia) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan) - slides
  • Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology" - slides

Archives

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 17-Oct-2013
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Abstract

Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues - overview slides

As with the recent session-4 (The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard) this is a continuation of the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series that was started in late 2012 as a joint venture of OASIS, OMG, various ISO working groups, IAOA, OOR and ONTOLOG. This session, is part of a program of 8 topics, which are planned to be held over the remaining time in 2013, and partly in 2014.

We are over 10 years from Smith and Mark's Geographical Categories: An Ontological Investigation one of top 10 cited articles in the geospatial (GS) field. Many technical geospatial standards exist and there is increasing intersection of the GS technical community and the ontological and semantic technology communities. Still many geospatial data & web feature services have standardized terms but lack adequate semantics. Some of the concepts in need of improved semantics, such as quantity and observation, are not specific to the GS domain. This session explores some efforts to reduce the ambiguities in GS definitions, as well as the interrelationships of concepts across GS and related domains. The session builds on work coming out of standards bodies like the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC), but also looks to progress on ontologies such as started on the W3C Geospatial Incubator Group which defined seven categories of Geospatial Ontologies:

  • Geospatial Feature Ontology
  • Feature Type Ontology
  • Spatial Relationship Ontology
  • Toponym (Place name) Ontology
  • Coordinate Reference / Spatial Grid Ontology
  • Geospatial Metadata Ontology
  • (Geospatial) Web Services Ontology

Notable also was the benchmark survey of the GS ontology landscape (= Geospatial Ontology Trade Study) conducted in 2007 which reviewed spatial conceptualization in foundational and upper level ontologies but also concepts in domain and commercial standards (e.g. the Geography Markup Language GML) as well as spatial ontologies that are embedded in other ontologies such as SWEET. Several of the GS ontologies discussed in the trade study have been made available in the SOCoP OOR as part of NSF's funding of the SOCoP INTEROP effort.

Another notable development has been the formalization of GeoSPARQL which was presented previously in the SOCoP Virtual Workshop on Semantics in Geospatial and Other Architectures: Design and Implementation (2013-05-07).

For our session today, we have invited presentations by people involved in the geospatial arena and with standards. Following a very brief overview, they will each present for about 20 minutes on their areas of work and interest. This will be followed by Q & A and an open discussion of issues.

For more detail on the mini-series please also refer to details on the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series homepage.

Briefings

  • Dr. LuisBermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web" slides
Abstract: ... This talk provides information about Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) activities related to the Semantic Web and gaps. It will highlight work done by OGC subcommittees, working groups and projects of the Interoperability Program. All these activities are using technologies that will allow better capturing and sharing rich semantics in OGC Geospatial standards. The talk will provide details about GeoSPARQL and OGC URIs. Finally, it will provide some information about ideas for future work, including UML to OWL activities.
  • Dr. SimonCox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)" - slides
Abstract: ... We have developed OWL ontologies for the ISO/OGC model for Observations, and for other standard geographic information schemas (geometry, time, metadata) upon which it depends. Translation from the original UML to OWL follows the ISO 19150-2 rules. The ontologies have been prepared standalone, to respect the "upper ontology" implied by the ISO UML profile and ISO General Feature Model, and thus avoid introducing external bias. Mapping to other ontologies, such as the SSN ontology, can be done subsequently in RDFS and OWL axioms, and maintained as linksets separate from the structure model. A key issue is whether the OWL representation should exactly reproduce the frame-based UML model from the standard, or be an open-world OWL representation of some underlying model. This affects property scoping and object property restrictions. The latter choice requires more interpretation during conversion. Two incompatible ontologies have been developed through following both approaches.
The ISO-based ontology and SSN ontology are almost equally expressive. However, in the SSN ontology alignment with DOLCE is achieved by putting the Observation class in the DUL:SocialObject hierarchy, whereas in O&M it is conceived of as an "Event".
  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan) - slides
Abstract: ... The W3C Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group published its final report in 2011. One of two main objectives of the group was "to develop of an ontology to describe sensors and sensor networks," and this objective was met with the ontology presented in the final report, with online documentation at the link below. The ontology is domain independent and comprehensive, merging sensor-focused, observation-focused and system-focused views. It is intended to be used in conjunction with domain-specific ontologies as well as ontologies of measurement, time, location and mobility. It is aligned with the DOLCE Ultra Lite upper ontology, and is backward-compatible with the OGC's Sensor Web Enablement (SWE) standard.
  • Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology" - slides
Abstract: ... The terms specified in currently available geospatial standards (and spatial standards in general) largely lack full semantic formalizations. However, subtle differences abound in the spatial domain, thus it is especially important to formally state what the concepts and relations mean.
In this talk, I will outline how spatial standards can be improved by grounding terms in first-order axiomatizations. While I will use examples from hydro ontology, much of the work generalizes to other geospatial domains and beyond, as demonstrated by ongoing work in anatomy.

Agenda

OntologyBasedStandards Mini-series Panel Session-05

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call

Proceedings

Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --


Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017

2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT]


[9:13] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the

OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17

Session Co-chair: Dr. GaryBergCross (SOCoP) & Dr. Tara Athan (Athan Services)

Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Dr. Luis Bermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web"
  • Dr. Simon Cox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)"
  • Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan)
  • Dr. Torsten Hahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology"

Logistics:

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName
  • Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute
  • Can't find Skype Dial pad?
    • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
    • for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now

(as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)

Attendees: Aleksandra Sojic, Alex Shkotin, Amanda Vizedom, Bobbin Teegarden, Bruce Simons,

CeciliaDiSciascio, DeborahMacPherson, Elizabeth Florescu, Fran Lightsom, Francesca Quattri,

GaryBergCross, GenZou, Harold Boley, Joel Bender, Josh Lieberman, Lamar Henderson, Luis Bermudez,

Michael Grüninger, Mike Bennett, Mike Dean, Nelcy Pina, Nikkia Anderson, Ola Ahlqvist, Oliver Kutz,

Peter P. Yim, Ram D. Sriram, Richard Martin, Sean Barker, Simon Cox, Tara Athan, Todd Pehle, Torsten Hahmann

Proceedings

[8:58] anonymous morphed into Ola Ahlqvist

[9:19] anonymous morphed into Bruce Simons

[9:19] Peter P. Yim: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people

from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference"

is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or

google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#

[9:20] Peter P. Yim: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it

indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)

[9:20] Peter P. Yim: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia,

Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/

[9:22] GaryBergCross: Hello all.

[9:26] anonymous morphed into Luis Bermudez

[9:27] Luis Bermudez: Hi everyone

[9:30] Simon Cox: Is my chat coming through now?

[9:31] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - Yes

[9:30] anonymous morphed into Torsten Hahmann

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Ram D. Sriram

[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into Bobbin Teegarden

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Francesca Quattri

[9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou

[9:37] anonymous1 morphed into CeciliaDiSciascio

[9:37] Alex Shkotin: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-)

[9:38] anonymous morphed into Todd Pehle

[9:41] Simon Cox: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK

[9:42] Peter P. Yim: great ... thanks, Simon

[9:45] Richard Martin: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time?

[9:47] Peter P. Yim: @RichardMartin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings"

(top center of window) helps

[9:40] Peter P. Yim: == GaryBergCross & Tara Athan started the session ... please bring up slides under:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V

[9:44] anonymous morphed into DeborahMacPherson

[9:47] Amanda Vizedom: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category

work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different,

however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in

semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain?

[9:51] GaryBergCross: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and

different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of

this in the talks starting with Luis....

[9:47] anonymous morphed into Nelcy Pina

[9:48] Peter P. Yim: == Luis Bermudez presenting ...

[9:52] anonymous morphed into Richard Martin

[10:05] GaryBergCross: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations.

[10:11] DeborahMacPherson: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks

[10:18] Luis Bermudez: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here:

http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/geo4niem

[10:10] Peter P. Yim: == Simon Cox presenting ...

[10:14] GaryBergCross: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30.

[10:21] GaryBergCross: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing.

--[10:22] Harold Boley: Voice connection broken!

--[10:22] Tara Athan: Simon, we can't hear you.

--[10:22] Harold Boley: Simon?

--[10:22] Peter P. Yim: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in

--[10:23] Harold Boley: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point?

--[10:24] Bruce Simons: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question if anyone sees Simon Cox on skype] I do

--[10:24] Francesca Quattri: great

--[10:24] Bruce Simons: I have tried skyping him

--[10:25] Harold Boley: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on.

--[10:25] Simon Cox: I'm back now

--[10:27] Peter P. Yim: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - great, thank you!

--[10:26] Harold Boley: we were at the ISO 19150-2 (2015?) slide (slide #7)

[10:24] anonymous morphed into Josh Lieberman

[10:30] anonymous morphed into Nikkia Anderson

[10:27] Luis Bermudez: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and SimonCox.

It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago:

http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/gswie

[10:32] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL

mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then

generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these

issues are still very much live.

[10:39] Josh Lieberman: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the

widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe.

[10:40] GaryBergCross: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee.

[10:40] Peter P. Yim: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ...

[10:41] Simon Cox: [responding to TaraAthan's remark that CoryHenderson cannot be with us today, and

therefore she is presenting Cory's work] I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next

week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions!

[10:41] Simon Cox: Maybe he's travelling now ...

[10:42] GaryBergCross: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up at this time slot.

[10:43] Simon Cox: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user-

(observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to SensorML,

consumer-centric motivated O&M

--[10:45] Simon Cox: Now we lost Tara?

--[10:46] Francesca Quattri: Tara, we cannot hear you

--[10:46] Peter P. Yim: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment

--[10:46] Tara Athan: I'll try to reconnect

--[10:47] Peter P. Yim: great!

--[10:47] Tara Athan: skype froze on me

--[10:47] Peter P. Yim: take your time, Tara

--[10:50] Tara Athan: I'm back now, calling in from my landline

[10:50] Nelcy Pina: Sorry, I cannot see the slides...

[10:51] Nelcy Pina: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :(

[10:52] Nelcy Pina: let me see ...

[10:59] Nelcy Pina: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox

[10:52] Peter P. Yim: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the

slides and run them on your own machine locally

[10:47] Amanda Vizedom: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that

way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social

means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and

typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in

epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way.

[10:48] Simon Cox: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation.

[10:49] Simon Cox: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context

[10:49] Amanda Vizedom: @JoshLieberman - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either

way has special areas of emphasis and dilution.

[10:50] Simon Cox: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question on where one can find the owl

axiomatization of the various ontologies mentioned in the preseentation] Start here:

http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/

[10:50] Simon Cox: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not

be for a couple of years :-( (

[10:51] Simon Cox: if you ask for http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling you

should get the lot

[10:51] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical

concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a

particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement.

measurement) - this is a challenge:-)


[10:53] Simon Cox: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server

so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a

surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ...

[10:56] Simon Cox: SensorML, and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems

[10:56] Simon Cox: (SensorML is OGC standard)

[10:57] Simon Cox: @Tara - perhaps this one:

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Incubator_Report#Aligning_the_SSN_Ontology_and_the_core_SSO_design_pattern_with_DOLCE

[10:59] Simon Cox: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support

provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model

[11:01] [[TaraAthan|Tara Athan]]: SSN class </Users/taraathan/Downloads/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--[[CoryHenson_SSN]]-subset-TA_20131017.pdf (is subclass of) DUL class Deployment < Process(DUL) SensorOutput < InformationObject Observation < Situation Device < DesignedArtifact System, Sensor, Platform < PhysicalObject SensorInput < Event Process(SSN) < Method [[FeatureOfInterest]] < Event or Object Property < Quality ObservationValue < Region (a region in a dimensional space which can be used as a value for a quality of an Entity e.g. TimeInterval, SpaceRegion, PhysicalAttribute, Amount, . . .)

[10:59] Peter P. Yim: == Torsten Hahmann presenting ...

--[11:03] Bruce Simons: Has the conference call failed or just me?

--[11:03] Tara Athan: just you

--[11:03] Josh Lieberman: Still going on.

--[11:04] Peter P. Yim: sorry Bruce Simons, please dial back in again

--[11:05] Simon Cox: (@Bruce - skype can't see you, maybe restart skype)

--[11:05] Bruce Simons: @Peter Back in

--[11:06] Peter P. Yim: @BruceSimons - great!

[11:05] Amanda Vizedom: @TorstenHahmann +1 on the lesser emphasis on relationships.

[11:13] Tara Athan: how is "water" defined- does it include dissolved substances?

suspended particles? fish?

[11:13] Simon Cox: Crocodiles?

[11:13] GaryBergCross: With whatever time we have for discussion presenters may have a chance for

discussing of each other's ideas.

[11:14] Mike Bennett: Crocodile-infested water is surely a sub class of water, with a restriction on

the property "infestedBy"?

[11:14] DeborahMacPherson: Need to take off - thanks for the interesting presentations!

[11:14] GaryBergCross: @tara there may be bio, geo and chemical constituents of a water body.

[11:15] Tara Athan: @gary - thx

[11:16] Luis Bermudez: @SimonCox @TaraAthan - One issue with the SSN and the OM model is that SSN

doesn't treat Sensor as a subclass of Process (in O&M called Procedure). In SSN a Sensor can

implement some Sensing, and Sensing is sub class of Process, but I don't see this as a big issue.

[11:16] Amanda Vizedom: Presumably, and noting the particular wording on slide 10, any of those

things could be *in* the water body, but they would not be *constituents* of the water body.

[11:17] GaryBergCross: Reminder the free Nov 18-19 SOCoP workshop page is at

http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDC2013. Please come...this means you Amanda and Josh.

[11:17] Amanda Vizedom: Noted, Gary. Will email you about that.

[11:18] Simon Cox: SSN and O&M are each self-consciously domain-neutral

[11:19] Simon Cox: Thanks @Amanda - Crocodiles may be constituents of water-body, but not of water

[11:19] Amanda Vizedom: @SimonCox - Thereby supporting documentation of hydrological samples and

measurement of the ppm of crocodiles.

[11:19] Amanda Vizedom: !

[11:20] Mike Bennett: Good insight. infestedBy and similar properties would be properties of

WaterBody not of Water as such.

[11:20] Alex Shkotin: @Torsten, you are on the way to build axiomatic theory of hydrology!

[11:21] Peter P. Yim: == Open Discussion ...

--[11:23] Simon Cox: Can't hear Luis

--[11:23] Tara Athan: audio problems

--[11:23] GaryBergCross: a pulsing sound on the audio.

--[11:24] Luis Bermudez: Having problems with skype

--[11:24] GaryBergCross: Luis - can you type your point in??

--[11:24] Nelcy Pina: please type here @LuisBermudez

[11:24] Torsten Hahmann: yes, infestedBy crocodiles would be a property of a WaterBody, not of the water

(which may flow further downstream to a not-infested water body)

[11:25] Simon Cox: Are - distinguish between solution and suspension!

[11:26] Mike Bennett: ... and colloid (to complete the set)

[11:26] Simon Cox: We'll be getting into colloids next!

[11:26] Simon Cox: (snap)

[11:26] Francesca Quattri: Thank you to the Speakers. Looking forward to the next session.

[11:27] Simon Cox: Hmmm. Ontology begat chemistry / vv

[11:28] Amanda Vizedom: I believe that those sorts of chemistry distinctions have been formalized...

now I need to find a link to back that up...

[11:28] Simon Cox: Josh - observing vs reasoning. Some science involves more of the latter (e.g. geology)

[11:29] Alex Shkotin: @Torsten, maybe we should speak about ecological system in hydrology.

[11:29] Simon Cox: sensing vs. reasoning

[11:26] Luis Bermudez: @Torsten, How far do you think OGC should go standardizing Geospatial Ontologies?

[11:29] Torsten Hahmann: @Luis: good question. I think being able to verify the consistency of the standards

would be a reasonable goal. Of course, it is probably out of scope to formalize all kinds of geographic toponyms

[11:29] Josh Lieberman: I might think of it more as established versus contingent processing of a measurement.

[11:30] Luis Bermudez: @Torsten thank you will follow up with you later about what you mean by "consistency of standards"

[11:31] Torsten Hahmann: @Luis: sure, would be happy to discuss it in more detail

[11:34] GaryBergCross: @Torsten I agree that it can go both ways and does, but perhaps standard

bodies need to support the heavy work.

[11:35] Luis Bermudez: @Gary et al. I lost my audio

[11:36] GaryBergCross: @Simon - good point to put on record the crisis of geospatial standards because of limitations

[11:42] Simon Cox: @Gary - I mentioned 'crisis' in standards - adoption lags development, which lags

design, by years or decades.

[11:43] Simon Cox: We already know that OGC interface standards are out of date, yet institutions are

only now adopting and deploying

[11:43] Simon Cox: There are some thing which will endure however: mostly information side (models)

[11:38] Alex Shkotin: Standards should use CNL first of all - like ACE;-) It's a step to formalization:-)

[11:39] Simon Cox: CNL?

[11:39] Alex Shkotin: Controlled Natural Language

[11:40] Simon Cox: But they are already committed to UML, and have big corpus ...

[11:41] Alex Shkotin: @Simon, then we need converter from UML to CNL;-)

[11:41] GaryBergCross: @Alex CNL yes +1.

[11:42] GaryBergCross: John F. Sowa made some efforts to describe a CNL for Common Logic.

[11:43] Alex Shkotin: We convert our petrology DB to ACE manually:-(

[11:43] Alex Shkotin: @Gary, this is a trend CNL - FOL:-)

[11:38] GaryBergCross: Simon's observations are similar to what Bill McCarthy presented: Tension

between a theoretical ontology community and a standards community.

[11:40] Mike Bennett: @Gary that's something I think Bill and I will pick up on in our session.

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: ... we have a really distributed participation today ... quite a number of

countries are represented here: I can recognize (at least) folks from Australia (Melbourne and Sydney),

Canada, China (Hong Kong), Germany, Romania, Russia, United Kingdom, United States and Venezuela

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: To get involved in the OntologyBasedStandards dialog, please subscribe yourself to

the [ontology-based-standards] list, if you haven't already -

http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards

[11:39] Peter P. Yim: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-24) for the RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch

Event - co-chairs: Leo Obrst & Benjamin Grosof - ref. developing session details at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24

[11:40] GaryBergCross: Thank you all. we could have had 2 sessions on this. I hope the conversation

continues in the Ontolog and SOCoP forums.

[11:40] Josh Lieberman: Thanks Gary and Tara for organizing.

[11:40] Simon Cox: How fast can retrofit happen?

[11:40] Alex Shkotin: Thank you all:-)

[11:41] GaryBergCross: Thanks again Simon....it was great to have you on.

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: sorry about the connection problems today! (I'll clean that up in the recording)

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: great session! thanks everyone ...

[11:41] Tara Athan: Thanks to the speakers, and also the attendees for some great questions.

[11:44] Simon Cox: Time for shower/breakfast

[11:44] Simon Cox: ;-)

[11:44] Alex Shkotin: Time to sleep:-)

[11:45] Alex Shkotin: C u

[11:45] GaryBergCross: have a good day ..or night... bye

[11:47] Nelcy Pina: thanks for the session! :)

[11:48] Nelcy Pina: But I feel that a meeting like this is not complete...

[11:49] Nelcy Pina: We could be in touch to comment after the session

[11:51] Nelcy Pina: but I know its difficult I have not had lunch yet and for @AlexShkotin it's time to sleep

[11:51] Peter P. Yim: @NelcyPina - the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list is available for that, if

you haven't already joined - please consider subscribing to it at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards ... the mailing list will allow us

to have an asynchronous conversation

[11:53] Nelcy Pina: ok

[11:55] Peter P. Yim: closing the chat-room now! Bye, everyone!

[11:56] Nelcy Pina: bye

[11:56] Luis Bermudez: Bye. Thank you

[11:41] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:40am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --

  • Additional Community Input
    • Kiyong Lee / 2013.10.15: ... want to let you know that ISO/TC 37/SC 4/WG 2 has been developing CD 24617-7 Language resource management - Semantic annotation framework - Part 7: Spatial information (Project leader: James Pustejovsky, convenor: KiyongLee). It was just approved to move on the so-called DIS (draft international standard) stage. It not only deals with topological information, but also motions, paths, etc, going beyond the work of MITRE's SpatialML. A couple of years ago when we started this project, our working group had a joint meeting with geospatial experts, so I think our ISO work may also be related to your various works.
      • Kiyong Lee / 2013.10.15: [... further, in regard to James' spatial annotation work, you might want to check out his website at Brandeis, and] the book James Pustejovsky and Inderjeet Mani co-authored, entitled Interpreting Motion: Grounded Representations for Spatial Language, Oxford U Press, 2012, and a review appears in Computational Linguistics, June 2013, vol. 39, no. 2, pages 455-457

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