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== Proceedings ==
 
== Proceedings ==
 +
[13:37] Mike Bennett: IAOA membership
  
 +
[13:38] Mike Bennett: Previously Ken iterated a thing we could do without waiting for the web, but it also sounded that the proper fix was imminent so some of us never did that thing.
 +
 +
[13:38] Mike Bennett: KB is experience database issues so the thing is still not up.
 +
 +
[13:38] Mike Bennett: database design lacks semantics? Institution and regular members represented in the same (DB) Table.
 +
 +
[13:39] Mike Bennett: Whereas institutions have a representative in the same representative.
 +
 +
[13:39] Mike Bennett: Mb and the Semantic Shed crowd (and even FIBO) have a good ontology for this kind of thing.
 +
 +
[13:39] Mike Bennett: Names were mentioned.
 +
 +
[13:40] Mike Bennett: The semantics of the CB does not distinguish between parthood and membership.
 +
 +
[13:40] Mike Bennett: Also the interface is a bit insecure.
 +
 +
[13:40] Mike Bennett: So summary: not done yet. KB still removing vulnerabilities.
 +
 +
[13:40] Mike Bennett: Why not use a triple store and ontology?
 +
 +
[13:41] Mike Bennett: Reasons. Original designer not in a position to take this on.
 +
 +
[13:41] Mike Bennett: Meanwhile how to join?
 +
 +
[13:41] Mike Bennett: Use Paypal.
 +
 +
[13:41] Mike Bennett: The account name is...
 +
 +
[13:42] Mike Bennett: Previously ()when in Italy) there was a fee on the recipient so this method was not allowed.
 +
 +
[13:43] Mike Bennett: This may or may not still be the case.
 +
 +
[13:43] ToddSchneider: Here's a free triple store: http://parliament.semwebcentral.org/
 +
 +
[13:44] Mike Bennett: To use Paypal, please treasurer@iaoa.org - put that email address where it is asked for and it should go through.
 +
 +
[13:44] Mike Bennett: No need for recipient name and address details.
 +
 +
[13:45] Mike Bennett: What is the fee for one year?
 +
 +
[13:45] Mike Bennett: EUR 50.00
 +
 +
[13:46] Mike Bennett: This varies for countries with different development levels e.g. Yemen.
 +
 +
[13:46] Mike Bennett: The table of these countries is still on the website?
 +
 +
[13:48] Mike Bennett: Yes.
 +
 +
[13:48] Mike Bennett: Other agenda items?
 +
 +
[13:48] Mike Bennett: IOF meeting 2 weeks ago in Buffalo: Proposed next F2F would be held in Norway in Feb 2019.
 +
 +
[13:48] Mike Bennett: People here might be interested in attending.
 +
 +
[13:49] Mike Bennett: One of the ontologies needed to support the IOF is aspects of finance - may need to build upon FIBO concepts e.g. Contracts, POs etc.
 +
 +
[13:49] Mike Bennett: People have mentioned the use of FIBO but others have noted this is too complicated. Need someone who can pick out the pieces and yet be consistent with FIBO.
 +
 +
[13:49] Mike Bennett: Aiming for modular ontologies.
 +
 +
[13:53] Mike Bennett: MB: the Semantic Shed is working on just such an ontology, for business and commerce, based around REA.
 +
 +
[13:53] Mike Bennett: This work is based explicitly on a concept-centric (not Realist) ontological stance, unlike BFO.
 +
 +
[13:54] Mike Bennett: TS is writing the Technical Principles guide. Will circulate when more complete.
 +
 +
[13:56] Mike Bennett: MB clarifies that the concept-centric nature of the Shed and pre-FIBO work is incompatible with the BFO stance, even if the concepts may be mappable.
 +
 +
[13:56] Mike Bennett: We also use polyhierarchy.
 +
 +
[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO forbids polyhierarchy only for one kind of class (asserted classes or something, versus define classes where it is allowed). FIBO/Shed etc. insists upon it, at the level of high level 'Archetypes'.
 +
 +
[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO uses the notion of 'notion' as distinct from 'concept'.
 +
 +
[14:00] Mike Bennett: Most of those involved have only been indoctrinated.
 +
 +
[14:01] Mike Bennett: ... in BFO.
 +
 +
[14:01] Mike Bennett: IOF will support Common Logic (Gruninger and Katsumi).
 +
 +
[14:05] Mike Bennett: these are all issues to understand in model driven development and in financial matters.
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: KB did a tutorial on ontologies in [something]. People wanted to see the philosophical aspects. KB includes the philosophical view of upper ontologies and then talk to the practical implications pf this.
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: Next: Cape Town FOIS
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: Meeting were curious as to whether SWAO will have SIG meeting there?
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: who will be there?
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: Mike Bennett
 +
 +
[14:07] Mike Bennett: no-one else in this group.
 +
 +
[14:08] Mike Bennett: We could meet remotely. Schedule a session and see who comes.
 +
 +
[14:08] Mike Bennett: Agenda for that meeting?
 +
 +
[14:08] Mike Bennett: 1. Going over what this SWAO is about, what we have done, what we plan to do, call for volunteers.
 +
 +
[14:09] Mike Bennett: 2. See 1.
 +
 +
[14:09] Mike Bennett: There are some SIGs that only meet at FOIS.
 +
 +
[14:09] Mike Bennett: Consensus: We will have such a meeting.
 +
 +
[14:10] Mike Bennett: Check with Frank Loebe as the main contact to talk about [this]
 +
 +
[14:10] Mike Bennett: where [this] = the logistics for such a call.
 +
 +
[14:10] Mike Bennett: This will take place Wed, Thur or Friday (Monday and Tuesday unavailable).
 +
 +
[14:11] Mike Bennett: Any other Agenda ideas please mail to Mike Bennett.
 +
 +
[14:11] Mike Bennett: Dates are Sept 17 - 21. so dates for the SIG would be 19 - 21.
 +
 +
[14:12] Mike Bennett: Time difference is 6 hours ahead of EDT.
 +
 +
[14:13] Mike Bennett: Not Friday.
 +
 +
[14:13] Mike Bennett: 9am EDT is possible.
 +
 +
[14:14] Mike Bennett: Discourage Friday. Wed or Thursday.
 +
 +
[14:15] Mike Bennett: Next agenda item: what do we want our next project or activit(ies) to be, or do we use the FOIS meeting to determine that.
 +
 +
[14:15] Mike Bennett: We will do that.
 +
 +
[14:16] Mike Bennett: Also discuss our attempt to hold a Workshop. Given that this did not happen.
 +
 +
[14:16] Mike Bennett: Agenda item for this FOIS meeting: Whether to propose a JOWO workshop next year?
 +
 +
[14:18] Mike Bennett: JOWO = Joint Ontology Workshops.
 +
 +
[14:18] Mike Bennett: This was joint between a number of workshops e.g. Onto.com that decided to come together.
 +
 +
[14:19] Mike Bennett: JOWO is also a kind of statue apparently. In a temple. Personally blessed by the Buddha.
 +
 +
[14:20] Mike Bennett: KB also references some of JFS's references to early ontologies in Buddhism and elsewhere. Also Lao Tze.
 +
 +
[14:23] Mike Bennett: This kind of framing and positioning (concept ontology etc.) forms a strong framing of what this SWAO SIG is about - make this a basis for the September meeting and presentations in Cape Town.
 +
 +
[14:25] Mike Bennett: AoB
 +
 +
[14:26] Mike Bennett: What should the next Ontology Summit topic be? (SWAO view as a contribution on this)
 +
 +
[14:26] Mike Bennett: Ontology Visualization and tools?
 +
 +
[14:26] Mike Bennett: Bringing in IOF and semantic technologies for Systems Engineering group into these activities (for Summit; also an idea for SWAO?)
 +
 +
[14:27] Mike Bennett: TS can send an email to Mike G who is also contributing to the IOF effort.
 +
 +
[14:27] Mike Bennett: Also some possible ideas coming out of OMG e.g. in concept ontology modeling and the like.
 +
 +
[14:27] Mike Bennett: Next Meeting:
 +
 +
[14:28] Mike Bennett: 10 September (3 Sept is US Labor Day)
  
 
== Attendees ==
 
== Attendees ==

Latest revision as of 14:02, 6 August 2018

[ ]
    (1)
Number 57
Duration 1 hour
Date/Time August 6 2018 17:30 GMT
10:30 PDT/1:30pm EDT
6:30pm BST/7:30pm CEST
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG     (2)

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times.     (3)


Contents

[edit] Agenda     (5)

1. Housekeeping     (5A)

2. Events     (5B)

3. Discussion of new initiatives     (5C)

5. Next Meeting     (5E)


[edit] Proceedings     (6)

[13:37] Mike Bennett: IAOA membership     (6A)

[13:38] Mike Bennett: Previously Ken iterated a thing we could do without waiting for the web, but it also sounded that the proper fix was imminent so some of us never did that thing.     (6B)

[13:38] Mike Bennett: KB is experience database issues so the thing is still not up.     (6C)

[13:38] Mike Bennett: database design lacks semantics? Institution and regular members represented in the same (DB) Table.     (6D)

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Whereas institutions have a representative in the same representative.     (6E)

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Mb and the Semantic Shed crowd (and even FIBO) have a good ontology for this kind of thing.     (6F)

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Names were mentioned.     (6G)

[13:40] Mike Bennett: The semantics of the CB does not distinguish between parthood and membership.     (6H)

[13:40] Mike Bennett: Also the interface is a bit insecure.     (6I)

[13:40] Mike Bennett: So summary: not done yet. KB still removing vulnerabilities.     (6J)

[13:40] Mike Bennett: Why not use a triple store and ontology?     (6K)

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Reasons. Original designer not in a position to take this on.     (6L)

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Meanwhile how to join?     (6M)

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Use Paypal.     (6N)

[13:41] Mike Bennett: The account name is...     (6O)

[13:42] Mike Bennett: Previously ()when in Italy) there was a fee on the recipient so this method was not allowed.     (6P)

[13:43] Mike Bennett: This may or may not still be the case.     (6Q)

[13:43] ToddSchneider: Here's a free triple store: http://parliament.semwebcentral.org/     (6R)

[13:44] Mike Bennett: To use Paypal, please treasurer@iaoa.org - put that email address where it is asked for and it should go through.     (6S)

[13:44] Mike Bennett: No need for recipient name and address details.     (6T)

[13:45] Mike Bennett: What is the fee for one year?     (6U)

[13:45] Mike Bennett: EUR 50.00     (6V)

[13:46] Mike Bennett: This varies for countries with different development levels e.g. Yemen.     (6W)

[13:46] Mike Bennett: The table of these countries is still on the website?     (6X)

[13:48] Mike Bennett: Yes.     (6Y)

[13:48] Mike Bennett: Other agenda items?     (6Z)

[13:48] Mike Bennett: IOF meeting 2 weeks ago in Buffalo: Proposed next F2F would be held in Norway in Feb 2019.     (6AA)

[13:48] Mike Bennett: People here might be interested in attending.     (6AB)

[13:49] Mike Bennett: One of the ontologies needed to support the IOF is aspects of finance - may need to build upon FIBO concepts e.g. Contracts, POs etc.     (6AC)

[13:49] Mike Bennett: People have mentioned the use of FIBO but others have noted this is too complicated. Need someone who can pick out the pieces and yet be consistent with FIBO.     (6AD)

[13:49] Mike Bennett: Aiming for modular ontologies.     (6AE)

[13:53] Mike Bennett: MB: the Semantic Shed is working on just such an ontology, for business and commerce, based around REA.     (6AF)

[13:53] Mike Bennett: This work is based explicitly on a concept-centric (not Realist) ontological stance, unlike BFO.     (6AG)

[13:54] Mike Bennett: TS is writing the Technical Principles guide. Will circulate when more complete.     (6AH)

[13:56] Mike Bennett: MB clarifies that the concept-centric nature of the Shed and pre-FIBO work is incompatible with the BFO stance, even if the concepts may be mappable.     (6AI)

[13:56] Mike Bennett: We also use polyhierarchy.     (6AJ)

[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO forbids polyhierarchy only for one kind of class (asserted classes or something, versus define classes where it is allowed). FIBO/Shed etc. insists upon it, at the level of high level 'Archetypes'.     (6AK)

[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO uses the notion of 'notion' as distinct from 'concept'.     (6AL)

[14:00] Mike Bennett: Most of those involved have only been indoctrinated.     (6AM)

[14:01] Mike Bennett: ... in BFO.     (6AN)

[14:01] Mike Bennett: IOF will support Common Logic (Gruninger and Katsumi).     (6AO)

[14:05] Mike Bennett: these are all issues to understand in model driven development and in financial matters.     (6AP)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: KB did a tutorial on ontologies in [something]. People wanted to see the philosophical aspects. KB includes the philosophical view of upper ontologies and then talk to the practical implications pf this.     (6AQ)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Next: Cape Town FOIS     (6AR)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Meeting were curious as to whether SWAO will have SIG meeting there?     (6AS)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: who will be there?     (6AT)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Mike Bennett     (6AU)

[14:07] Mike Bennett: no-one else in this group.     (6AV)

[14:08] Mike Bennett: We could meet remotely. Schedule a session and see who comes.     (6AW)

[14:08] Mike Bennett: Agenda for that meeting?     (6AX)

[14:08] Mike Bennett: 1. Going over what this SWAO is about, what we have done, what we plan to do, call for volunteers.     (6AY)

[14:09] Mike Bennett: 2. See 1.     (6AZ)

[14:09] Mike Bennett: There are some SIGs that only meet at FOIS.     (6AAA)

[14:09] Mike Bennett: Consensus: We will have such a meeting.     (6AAB)

[14:10] Mike Bennett: Check with Frank Loebe as the main contact to talk about [this]     (6AAC)

[14:10] Mike Bennett: where [this] = the logistics for such a call.     (6AAD)

[14:10] Mike Bennett: This will take place Wed, Thur or Friday (Monday and Tuesday unavailable).     (6AAE)

[14:11] Mike Bennett: Any other Agenda ideas please mail to Mike Bennett.     (6AAF)

[14:11] Mike Bennett: Dates are Sept 17 - 21. so dates for the SIG would be 19 - 21.     (6AAG)

[14:12] Mike Bennett: Time difference is 6 hours ahead of EDT.     (6AAH)

[14:13] Mike Bennett: Not Friday.     (6AAI)

[14:13] Mike Bennett: 9am EDT is possible.     (6AAJ)

[14:14] Mike Bennett: Discourage Friday. Wed or Thursday.     (6AAK)

[14:15] Mike Bennett: Next agenda item: what do we want our next project or activit(ies) to be, or do we use the FOIS meeting to determine that.     (6AAL)

[14:15] Mike Bennett: We will do that.     (6AAM)

[14:16] Mike Bennett: Also discuss our attempt to hold a Workshop. Given that this did not happen.     (6AAN)

[14:16] Mike Bennett: Agenda item for this FOIS meeting: Whether to propose a JOWO workshop next year?     (6AAO)

[14:18] Mike Bennett: JOWO = Joint Ontology Workshops.     (6AAP)

[14:18] Mike Bennett: This was joint between a number of workshops e.g. Onto.com that decided to come together.     (6AAQ)

[14:19] Mike Bennett: JOWO is also a kind of statue apparently. In a temple. Personally blessed by the Buddha.     (6AAR)

[14:20] Mike Bennett: KB also references some of JFS's references to early ontologies in Buddhism and elsewhere. Also Lao Tze.     (6AAS)

[14:23] Mike Bennett: This kind of framing and positioning (concept ontology etc.) forms a strong framing of what this SWAO SIG is about - make this a basis for the September meeting and presentations in Cape Town.     (6AAT)

[14:25] Mike Bennett: AoB     (6AAU)

[14:26] Mike Bennett: What should the next Ontology Summit topic be? (SWAO view as a contribution on this)     (6AAV)

[14:26] Mike Bennett: Ontology Visualization and tools?     (6AAW)

[14:26] Mike Bennett: Bringing in IOF and semantic technologies for Systems Engineering group into these activities (for Summit; also an idea for SWAO?)     (6AAX)

[14:27] Mike Bennett: TS can send an email to Mike G who is also contributing to the IOF effort.     (6AAY)

[14:27] Mike Bennett: Also some possible ideas coming out of OMG e.g. in concept ontology modeling and the like.     (6AAZ)

[14:27] Mike Bennett: Next Meeting:     (6AAAA)

[14:28] Mike Bennett: 10 September (3 Sept is US Labor Day)     (6AAAB)

[edit] Attendees     (7)

[edit] Next Meetings     (8)

[edit] Previous Meetings     (9)