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= [[OntologySummit2009]] Panel Session - "Standards Community Perspectives Toward Ontology-based Standards" - Thu 19-Mar-2009 =

== ''Subject'': The Standards Perspective -- What are standards and how could ontology help? ==

* ''Session Chair'': '''Mr. HowardMason''' (ISO TC 184/SC 4; BAE Systems) -- "What do standards need?" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/What-are-standards--HowardMason_20090319.pdf slides]

* ''Panelists'': ...
** '''Dr. MatthewWest''' -- "Ontologising Standards - the low hanging fruit" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Ontologising-Standards--the-low-hanging-fruit--MatthewWest_20090319.pdf slides]
** '''Mr. DavidLeal''' -- "Ontologies derived from standard information models used for engineering analysis meta-data" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/ontologies-for-engineering-analysis--DavidLeal_20090319.pdf slides]
** '''Mr. GeraldRadack''' -- "Catalogues, Dictionaries, Libraries, Data and Metadata" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Catalogues-Dictionaries-Libraries-Data-Metadata--GeraldRadack_20090319.pdf slides]
** '''Mr. NicolasFigay''' -- "Semantic PLM: using OWL for semantic repositories and mapping using reasoning engines" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Semantic-PLM--NicolasFigay_20090319.pdf slides]
** '''Mr. DavidShorter''' - "Seeking greater rigour in textual standards" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Seeking-greater-rigour-in-textual-standards--DavidShorter_20090319.pdf slides]
** '''Mr. DavidPrice''' - "Future STEP" - [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Future-STEP-Project--DavidPrice-AllisonFeeney_20090319.pdf slides]

=== Archives ===

* '''Our panel's prepared slides''' can be accessed by clicking on each of the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/ title links] below:
** '''Slides: . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/What-are-standards--HowardMason_20090319.pdf 0-Mason] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Ontologising-Standards--the-low-hanging-fruit--MatthewWest_20090319.pdf 1-West] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/ontologies-for-engineering-analysis--DavidLeal_20090319.pdf 2-Leal] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Catalogues-Dictionaries-Libraries-Data-Metadata--GeraldRadack_20090319.pdf 3-Radack] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Semantic-PLM--NicolasFigay_20090319.pdf 4-Figay] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Seeking-greater-rigour-in-textual-standards--DavidShorter_20090319.pdf 5-Shorter] ] . [ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/Future-STEP-Project--DavidPrice-AllisonFeeney_20090319.pdf 6-Price] ]'''
** '''[ [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/OntologySummit2009-StandardsCommunityPerspective_20090319.mp3 Audio Recording of the session] ]''' (mp3)
** '''[ [[ConferenceCall_2009_03_19|Transcript of the online chat session]] ]''' during the panel discussion

=== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details ===

* Date: '''Thursday, Mar. 19, 2009'''
* Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CET / 17:30 UTC
** see [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=19&year=2009&hour=10&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 world clock] for other time zones
* Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours
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** view-only password: "ontolog"
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** people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the '''[ slides above]''' and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.

* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''
** (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) '''Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2"''' on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. '''To un-mute, press "*3"'''
** You can '''type in your questions or comments through the browser''' based [[ConferenceCall_2005_09_01|chat session]] by:
*** pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="'''ontolog_20090319'''" and My Name="Your Own Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe")
** or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20090319
*** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
** (when everyone is muted) '''If you want to speak''' or have questions or remarks to make, '''please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). ''Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please.'' (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20090319@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!

* For those who cannot join us, or who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the [ [[OntologySummit2009|ontolog-summit]] ] listserv so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse.

* Please review our Virtual Session Tips and Ground Rules - see: [[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips]]

* '''RSVP''' ''to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated.''

* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_19

* Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].

=== Resources ===

* [[OntologySummit2009]]
* [[OntologySummit2009_OntologyCommunityPerspectives]]
* ConferenceCall_2009_03_12
* [[OntologySummit2009_StandardsCommunityPerspectives]]

== Attendees ==

* Attended:
** [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]]
** [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]
** [[GeraldRadack|Gerald Radack]]
** [[DavidLeal|David Leal]]
** [[DavidShorter|David Shorter]]
** [[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]
** [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
** Jerry Smith (DoD)
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]
** [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]
** [[BobbinTeegarden|Bobbin Teegarden]]
** [[DavidPrice|David Price]]
** [[NilsSandsmark|Nils Sandsmark]]
** [[TrishWhetzel|Trish Whetzel]]
** [[MikeAxelrod|Mike Axelrod]]
** [[ElgarPichler|Elgar Pichler]]
** [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]
** [[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]
** [[DeborahMacPherson]]
** [[LinePouchard|Line Pouchard]]

* Expecting:
** [[KatherineGoodier|Katherine Goodier]]
** [[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]
** [[CameronRoss|Cameron Ross]]
** [[FrankChum|Frank Chum]]
** [[BruceBray|Bruce Bray]]
** [[RobertHoehndorf|Robert Hoehndorf]]
** [[MichelleRaymond|Michelle Raymond]]
*
** ''... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail <peter.yim@cim3.com> so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...''

* Regrets:
** [[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]
** [[MatthewHettinger|Matthew Hettinger]]

== Agenda & Proceedings ==

=== Agenda ===

1. Opening by session Chair (HowardMason)

2. Briefings from Panelists -- [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]], [[DavidLeal|David Leal]], [[GeraldRadack|Gerald Radack]], [[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]] & [[DavidShorter|David Shorter]]

3. Q & A and Open Discussion

4. Action Items in preparation for the Ontology Summit

== Proceedings ==

* please refer to the [[ConferenceCall_2009_03_19|archives above]]

== Q & A and Open Discussion ==

* please refer to [[ConferenceCall_2009_03_19|process above]]

* ===IM Chat Transcript captured during the session=== ... ''(lightly edited for clarity)''

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to the [[OntologySummit2009]] Panel Session - "Standards Community Perspectives Toward Ontology-based Standards" - Thu 19-Mar-2009

Subject: The Standards Perspective -- What are standards and how could ontology help?

* Session Chair: Mr. [[HowardMason|Howard Mason]] (ISO TC 184/SC 4; BAE Systems) -- "What do standards need?"

* Panelists:

o Dr. [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]] -- "Ontologising Standards the low hanging fruit"

o Mr. [[DavidLeal|David Leal]] -- "Ontologies derived from standard information models used for engineering analysis meta-data"

o Mr. [[GeraldRadack|Gerald Radack]] -- "Catalogues, Dictionaries, Libraries, Data and Metadata"

o Mr. [[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]] -- "Semantic PLM: using OWL for semantic repositories and mapping using reasoning engines"

o Mr. [[DavidShorter|David Shorter]] - "Seeking greater rigour in textual standards"

o Mr. [[DavidPrice|David Price]] - "Future STEP"

Refer to details on the session page

at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_19

anonymous morphed into [[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]

anonymous morphed into [[DavidLeal|David Leal]]

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Hi you are at the right place ... session starting in 5 minutes

anonymous morphed into [[MikeAxelrod|Mike Axelrod]]

anonymous morphed into [[DavidPrice|David Price]]

anonymous morphed into Matthew West

anonymous morphed into [[DavidShorter|David Shorter]]

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: Some reaction:

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: EXPRESS OWL P21 are not only formats, but also rely on different modeling concepts

and paradigms. Not so easy to make it coherent

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: The first step I would think is to have a common concept of layers of types of model

(as found in computer model driven development) so that logical models

and semantic models are seen as distinct.

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: In reply to Nicolas comment, I think it's actually UML, EXPRESS and OWL that need alignment.

Agree that paradigms are different, but not so different that a mapping (perhaps lossy)

is impossible, or at least with a bit of additional information/annotation of the models,

schemas and/or ontologies to support the mapping.

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: URIs for country codes seem an obvious place to start for the very simple stuff - much easier

than units of measure. ISO 3166-1 says Afghanistan is "AF", and the codes are already on the Web.

Assigning a URI such as http://www.iso.org/iso/country#af seems obvious. To complete the task,

the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency needs to assign a URI to the class Country too.

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: In reply to [[DavidLeal|David Leal]] comment, while URIs for country identification is good - engineering apps

require units far more often so while that may be harder, it has far more value.

anonymous morphed into [[DeborahMacPherson]]

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: By the way, in order to enable better alignment between STEP information models and ontologies,

while we are not changing EXPRESS itself, we are gradually adding capability to the information models

themselves (e.g. "Classification Assignment By External Class" and a new "Same As External Item" I've

just created as part of AP239 E2 work).

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: a significant amount of work in units has already been done with/in NIST, it needs to be unified

with the already published concepts and terms of the BIPM.

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: I agree with [[DavidPrice|David Price]], but it would set a precedent. I also agree with Joel.

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: It would be great if we could push that NIST/BIPM units activities ... any idea how?

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: The concerns Nicolas described align very well with the issues/concerns/approach that

we're working with NIST on the Future STEP project.

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Perhaps having this forum conclude that an ontologically-driven alignment between the NIST units work

and BIPM should be on the short list produced at the Summit on April 6-7 would be a good stake in the ground.

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: w00t!

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: What is BIPM?

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bureau_of_Weights_and_Measures

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: I have raised this with ISO TC12, responsible for the ISO 80000 series which is replacing ISO 31 and

ISO 1000. They need to be involved too.

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: Steve, that would be great.

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Do people using SC4, SC5 etc. always mean TC184? I work on TC68/SC4 and there must be others

once we reach out to other industries? SC is Sub Committee.

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: For those present today, generally TC184 is understood. (Implicit knowledge!)

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: If any of the folks working on this are familiar with [[MathML]], that would be a plus. It's a fairly

straight forward process to translate [[MathML]] terms into rdf/rdfs/owl constructs,

and that's the one spot where the NIST work stops and need to keep going.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: I would recommand not to make evolve EXPRESS too fast, and not to be align with other language

which have not the same focus. If not, it will become a monster, and we will have difficulties

to choose one language or the other for a given purpose. If EXPRESS expressivity is the same than OWL,

it is a kind of competition. If different, it is a cooperation. The exemple is the way RDL are used in PLCS,

that is a little bit difficult for non expert

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: There is no plan to change EXPRESS.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: Ouf

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: @ Steve, thanks, I see that's Automation systems and integration so I presume that there are opportunities

for standardisation using ontologies in other inustries e.g. TC68 financial services where we are

doing things in this area. So I did not have the explicit knowledge that you mention

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: ISO 19440 that [[DavidShorter|David Shorter]] is describing looks very much like MODAF/DODAF.

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Mike, There are indeed opportunities. I will follow up on your email to me suggesting the financial industry.

Also, what are your thoughts on XBRL?

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: I should have said, a very small subset of MODAF/DODAF.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: To respond to Mike, we are also involved in System Engineering, Enterprise modeling, project management,

Business Intelligence and trying to make links ... through ontologies and components agregation

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: @ Steve - XBRL very important. I am waiting on the OWL version so I can use it more formally

in creating the financial securities ontology. I've referred to it as much as I can, and I think

everyone involved in SC4 (gotcha!) and elsewhere acknowledges its importance in this area.

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: @ Nicolas, thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Are you also aware of UN/CEFACT CCTS and so on?

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: To replace Protg, you can use a UML modeler, with ODM profile but compliant with XMI!

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: David, great point about UML and publishing something viewable. I've been using an ODM based format

(I see Nicolas beat me to it)

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: But with different coloured archetypes etc.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: Don't forget configuration managment of language format

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: My cell phone won't push the #3 to you, so I cannot talk at the moment.

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: I am doing #3, but you still cannot hear me.

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: *3

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Mike, is XBRL - OWL version being worked on already?

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: So I heard, but I haven't heard anything about this recently.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: I don't like the idea of migration. May be due to Long Term archiving concern...

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: For ABOX and TBOX, it is not only express but also p21

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: For these mapping, the configuration management is to be carefully handled for different languages,

conformance and openess of used tools (e.g. use only tools providing correct and interchangeable XMI

with appropriate version). Horizon and rythm of evolution should be compatible and align

- some synchronisation of the communities is required

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: A tool can be the set of framework being produced by IAI, ASD SSG, ISO ... for governance of standards

... which should include those related to ontology

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: still, it is a pity not to have semantic services for SOA.

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: Business Process are not to be forgotten

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: Will SKOS be a unifying force?

[[DavidPrice|David Price]]: I have to leave to present the Future STEP project o PDES inc. Sorry!

[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]: What are some of the terms that would be included in an ontology of product structure?

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: From my point, it will be extension of modeling constructs that should be added

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: I found this <http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mereology-medieval/> which is a great resource

for understanding why discussions of "is a part of" are hard to manage

(and why OWL classification fails sometimes) particularly for me with non-english speakers.

[[MikeAxelrod|Mike Axelrod]]: I've managed to unmute'

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: I have begun to list the ideas of candidate standards on the conference page for next week's panel,

under "Agenda Ideas", see http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_26#nid1UG4

[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]: There are already several first-order ontologies for mereology (axioms for part-of) and mereotopology

(axioms for part-of and connection). What are other relations that need to be axiomatized for

product structure within the current standards?

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: if automatic transformation language to language is not very usefull (impedance mismatch),

we should find a way to capture the way it was translated in order to be able to go back

- current technology manage it (with annotations

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: @ [[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]: where can I find these?

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: owl, uml, java ...

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: you are welcome

[[MichaelGruninger|Michael Grüninger]]: I will provide a complete bibliography on the wiki. We also plan to have an initial version of

[[JoelBender|Joel Bender]]: excellent...thank you...

[[NicolasFigay|Nicolas Figay]]: Thanks Howard

[[SteveRay|Steve Ray]]: Great session! Thanks to all.

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: great session ... the audio recording and chat transcript will be up on the session page later (as usual)

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Some great ideas in there. I thought there was a lot of valuable detail in what Nicolas is doing for example.

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: bye everyone ... thanks you for the participation!

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: posting comments received (on email) from Jerry Smith (DISA) below ...

[[ConferenceCall_2009_03_19|GeraldSmith]]: Amplification Gerry Radack comments on opportunities for quickly transforming and elevating a specification:

SC4 "Harvesting" is a fast, low administrative drag process for progressing a candidate specification

to international recognition and accreditation.

Source of the specification is immaterial as long as quality, IPR and management issues are resolved.

See http://www.tc184-sc4.org - go to the "Harvesting" link.

[[ConferenceCall_2009_03_19|GeraldSmith]]: Regarding DavidShorter's question on his last slide about "... how the result should be published as a standard?",

I would suggest all to look at the "Harvesting" process of ISO TC184-SC4. ... See: http://www.tc184-sc4.org

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: I look forward to all of you to send me (via email to <peter.yim@cim3.com>) your support

by confirming that we can list your standards working group and/or your organization

as a "co-sponsor" for this Summit

- ref.: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2009#nid1Q4P

* Further Question & Remarks - please post them to the [ [[OntologySummit2009|ontolog-summit]] ] listserv

== Audio Recording of this Session ==

* To download the [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/OntologySummit2009-StandardsCommunityPerspective_20090319.mp3 recording of the session], click '''[http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_StandardsPanel_20090319/OntologySummit2009-StandardsCommunityPerspective_20090319.mp3 here]'''
** the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
* Conference Date and Time: 19-Mar-2009 10:35am~12:40pm PDT
* Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 58 Minutes
* Recording File Size: 13.5 MB (in mp3 format)
* suggestions:
** its best that you listen to the session while having the respective [http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2009/OntologySummit2009_OntologiesPanel_20090312/ presentations] opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.
** Take a look, also, at the rich body of knowledge that this community has built together, over the years, by going through the [[WikiHomePage|archives of noteworthy past Ontolog events.]] (References on how to subscribe to our podcast can also be found there.)

----

''For the record ...''

== How To Join (while the session is in progress) ==

* '''1.''' Dial in with a phone: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_19#nid1UCC
* '''2.''' Open chat in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20090319
* '''3.''' Download presentations for each speaker here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_19#nid1VE7
** or, '''3.1''' http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_19#nid1UCQ

[[Category:Event_Meeting]] [[Category:OntologySummit2009]]

ConferenceCall 2009 03 19 - Revision history

imported>KennethBaclawski: Fix PurpleMediaWiki references