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= [[OntologySummit2009]] Planning Session - Thu 2008-12-18 =

* Subject: '''Ontologies as the Next Generation of Information Standards'''
* Co-chair: [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] & [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]
* Agenda: This is a communitywide brainstorming and planning session for OntologySummit2009.

* Archives:
** '''[[ConferenceCall_2008_12_18|transcript of the online chat]]''' during the panel discussion

=== [[MeetingsCalls|Conference Call]] Details ===

* Date: '''Thursday, December 18, 2008'''
* Start Time: 10:30am PST / 12:30pm CST / 1:30pm EST / 7:30pm CET / 18:30 UTC
** see [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12&day=18&year=2008&hour=10&min=30&sec=0&p1=224 world clock] for other time zones
* Expected Call Duration: ~1.5 hours
* Dial-in Number:
** from a '''US telephone (US): +1-218-486-3600''' (domestic long distance cost will apply)
** When calling in from a phone, use '''Conference ID: "4389979#"'''
** '''from Europe, call:'''
*** Austria 0820-4000-1577
*** Belgium 070-35-9992
*** France 0826-100-280
*** Germany 01805-00-7642
*** Ireland 0818-270-037
*** Italy 0848-390-179
*** Spain 0902-886-056
*** Switzerland 0848-560-327 or 0848-414-110
*** UK 0870-738-0765
** callers '''from other countries''' please dial into either one of the US or European numbers

* '''Discussions and Q & A:'''
** (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) '''Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2"''' on your phone keypad, when the talk is in progress. '''To un-mute, press "*3"'''
** (when everyone is muted) '''If you want to speak''' or have questions or remarks to make, '''please "raise your hand (virtually)" by pressing "11"''' on your phone keypad. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator. ''Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please.''
** You can also '''type in your questions or comments through the browser''' based [[ConferenceCall_2005_09_01|chat session]] by:
*** pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="'''ontolog_20081218'''" and My Name="Your Own Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe")
** or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20081218
*** instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
** thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20081218@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!

* For those who cannot join us, or who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the [ontology-forum] listserv so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse.

* Please review our Virtual Session Tips and Ground Rules - see: [[VirtualSpeakerSessionTips]]

* '''RSVP''' ''to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated.''

* This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2008_12_18

* Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under [[WikiHomePage#Intellectual_Property_Rights_.28IPR.29_Policy|our prevailing open IPR policy]].

== Attendees ==

* Attended:
** [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] (chair)
** [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] (co-chair)
** [[LeoObrst|Leo Obrst]]
** [[KurtConrad|Kurt Conrad]]
** [[RobinBenjamins|Robin Benjamins]]
** [[LaurentLiscia|Laurent Liscia]]
** [[BillMcCarthy]]
** [[TrishWhetzel|Trish Whetzel]]
** [[NilsSandsmark|Nils Sandsmark]]
** [[DavidPrice|David Price]]
** [[FabianNeuhaus|Fabian Neuhaus]]
** [[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]
** [[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]
** [[DavidLeal|David Leal]]
** [[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]
** [[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]
** [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
** [[NancyWiegand|Nancy Wiegand]]
** [[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]
** [[RaviSharma|Ravi Sharma]]

* Expecting:
** Simon Frechette (NIST)
** [[BarrySmith|Barry Smith]]
** [[GaryBergCross]] (will join late)
** [[AsmaMinyaoui|Asma Minyaoui]]
** [[HensonGraves|Henson Graves]]
** [[JamieClark]]
*
** ''(please add yourself to the list if you are a [[WikiHomePage|member]] or rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with your name and affiliation.)''

* Regrets:
** [[ElisaKendall|Elisa Kendall]]
** [[MikeDean|Mike Dean]]
** [[EvanWallace|Evan Wallace]]
** Mark Musen
** [[PeterBrown|Peter Brown]]
** [[AlanRuttenberg|Alan Ruttenberg]]
** [[PatHayes|Pat Hayes]]
** Nicola Guarino

=== Agenda Ideas ===

''(Please add below, and identify yourself for follow-up purposes)''

* ...

== Agenda & Proceedings ==

1. Meeting called to order:

* [[SteveRay|Steve Ray]] & [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] took the chair and welcomed everyone

* [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] volunteered to take minutes of the meeting

* review and adopt agenda

2. Roll Call:

* see [[ConferenceCall_2008_12_18|above]]

3. '''Discussions:'''

* Ontology Summits - Overview and what has come before - using the [http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20081218 chat]

* the theme this year
** see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2009#nid1Q2F

* the dates
** Launch Meeting: 15-Jan-2009
** Face-to-face workshop: 6~7-April-2009

* Q1 who else should get involved?

* Q2: how could we partition this year's discourse?

* Q3: suggestions for developing a "Roadmap" as a key deliverable?

* Q4: process suggestions?

* Q5: any other suggestions?

5. New Issues:

6. Any Other Business:

7. Action items:

8. Schedule Next Meeting & Adjourn:

* 15-Jan-2009 Launch Event - see: ConferenceCall_2009_01_15

* Call adjourned at: 12:06 pm PST

--

notes taken by: [[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]] / 2008.12.18-12:10 pm PST

All participants, please review and edit to enhance accuracy and granularity of the documented proceedings.

----

== Transcript of the in-session chat input from the participants ==

''Edited to provide better flow of the conversation only.''

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Welcome to: [[OntologySummit2009]] Planning Session - Thu 2008-12-18

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: One partition that I think would be helpful is a survey of existing ontological

representations of standards.

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Do you mean industry messaging / data standards like XBRL?

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: Hi Mike. Yes.

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: XBRL is especially pertinent.

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: The OASIS Semantic Execution Environment Technical Committee (SEE TC) released a

Pubic Review draft of its Reference Ontology for Service Oriented Architecture

recently. see: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/200812/msg00001.html

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: An interesting challenge - many of the ones in my industry (financial) were developed

without defining a technology neutral business view of what they were trying to represent.

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: Exactly.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: If we are looking at standards we must be looking at conformance clauses and criteria

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: Indeed. Those may also vary with the representation, e.g. OWL, OWL-S. WSML etc.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: starting with defining what is and is not an ontology would be useful

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: Peter, a previous Ontology Summit has addressed the question you raised on "what is an ontology?";

the communique is at http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2007_Communique

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Thanks Doug, I took a look but could not find a definition.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: As in a definition we could add to an ISO standard

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: We more or less came to the same conclusion.

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Indeed te communique says "The goal of the Ontology Summit is not to establish

a definitive definition of the word "ontology", which has proved extremely

challenging due to the diversity of artifacts it can refer to"

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: hmm.. if we can not define it do we know what we are talking about?

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: '''Q1: who else should get involved?'''

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: NATO AC/135

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: UN/CEFACT

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: [[BillMcCarthy]] is already on our organizing committee and will be our liaison to UN/CEFACT

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: The chair of AC/135 is George Bond he is on our board - so yes I will be glad to contact him

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: We already have NCOR, but it would be good to have both [[BarrySmith|Barry Smith]] and MarkMusen.

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Yes, we do have both of them (BarrySmith and MarkMusen) on the organizing committee already.

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: It seems to me that it would be good to have at least some representative

of the GIS community [e.g. GML]

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: If you are looking for UN/CEFACT then you may want to ask TC 154

[[BillMcCarthy]]: I can talk to my co-convenor for the accounting interoperability summit Roger Debreceny

with the purpose of including XBRL

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: EDM Council of course

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: TC 37 would be a natural as they deal with terminology

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: In the spirit of brainstorming, there are also some de-facto standards, such as

Dublin Core and FOAF that seem to be "ontological"

[[TrishWhetzel|Trish Whetzel]]: SKOS is another

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: [[EdDodds|Ed Dodds]] suggested XBRL and UDEF too

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: SUMO - IEEE

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: And, a number of architecture standards [e.g. FEAF, DODAF, etc.]

[[TrishWhetzel|Trish Whetzel]]: Will the ISO groups by default bring in the grid folks, ie caGrid?

[[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]: As I mentioned in my introduction, I have been working with the CEA-2018 standard.

The standard is a general task planning standard which could have applications in

many domains, but was developed for consumer electronics. My contact with the

standards committee is Chuck Rich at WPI, and I will try to get him to participate.

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: '''Q2: how could we partition this year's discourse? - i.e. framing the conversation'''

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: Ontology development methodologies

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Does this mean you are keeping "information" in the title?

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: 1. What is the role of an ontology in establishing a standard?

2. What kind of constraints or rules [standards?] should be applied to

ontologies that are used to establish a standard?

[[KurtConrad|Kurt Conrad]]: Not clear on what you mean by "partition"

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: The ISO definition of "data" is the representation of information -

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: There are no "information standard" that I know of

[[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]: Standards (amongst other things) provide definitions and authoritative sources for

identification of standard objects. Ontology is a natural next step for that,

whether the standards are information standards or not.

Standards themselves are information.

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: You might want to look at a breakdown of the different kind of animals that are

referred to as standards in different industries, for example some are message standards

(XML or otherwise), some are data models and so on. Should there be a partition on this?

Also some standards mandate business workflow and so on.

[[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]: A lot of standards are being expressed in XML Schema or RELAX NG.

CEA-2018 is expressed in RELAX NG. Are these already ontologies?

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: I agree that ontologies could be the next step in the representation of information

hence my request for a definition of the term ontology as this may provide the

natural partition of the debate

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: input from [[DavidPrice|David Price]]: what are "today's" (as opposed to "next generation") standards,

and which parts of it lends to ontological representation with today's technology;

and which parts require research to bring us to the future.

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: Standards that define a pipe thread or a material test method (two examples at random)

are currently expressed as text. We need to educate standardisation communities that

are not involved with IT about ontologies.

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: Earlier in the chat, I suggested: One partition that I think would be helpful is

a survey of existing ontological representations of standards.

I also cited: The OASIS Semantic Execution Environment Technical Committee (SEE TC)

released a Public Review draft of its Reference Ontology for Service Oriented Architecture

recently. http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/200812/msg00001.html

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: computer processable standards?

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: '''Q3: suggestions for developing a "Roadmap" as a key deliverable'''

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: Peter - that what I was attempting to say, but most standardisation communities

do not know what is possible.

[[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]: Web 1, Web 2, Web 3 history and predictions, provide a startpoint for a road map.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Sounds like a previous Ontology Summit sought to addressed the question of what is

an ontology without coming up with a definitive answer, working towards defining classes

of ontologies would be useful

[[RexBrooks|Rex Brooks]]: The Semantic Spectrum that Leo introduced several years ago is still viable as

a type of roadmap in the sense that we can compare where we are in terms of

expressivity versus how computable the otnological representations are.

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: Peter, I think if you qualify that as an "artifact for defining standards", it might

be a tractable goal

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: That suggests another stream which would be how to present ontology information in a

non IT format. Is that something that should be on the roadmap?

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: He rest of the world is a pretty large audience, can we be a little bit more precise

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: so explaining what an ontology is would be a good goal

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: One possible audience: those responsible for maintaining standards.

Specifically industry (content) standards where the business content is often

not captured because the technical people developing the standard are not strong

on requirements management.

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: Peter, I think explaining what an ontology is in the context of using it to define

a standard is a reasonable goal; if we don't constrain it like that, we'll just

repeat the 2007 experience...

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: By that definition ISO 22745-30 is a specification of how to express an ontology in XML

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: The ISO 13584 is developing ontoML

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: The ISO 13584 team is developing ontoML

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Doug, I agree with you

[[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]: We need to look at standards expressed as ontologies as well as standard ontologies.

[[DavidLeal|David Leal]]: An area in which it would be good to have a success is LCA (Life Cycle Assessment) data.

There have been attempt to create an ontology corresponding to the standard ISO 14048.

The team at the EU JRC in Ispra would be interested.

[[BillMcCarthy]]: The Open-edi accounting and economic ontology (ISO/IEC 15944-4) is expressed in UML

[[MatthewWest|Matthew West]]: What I mean is that we need to focus on standard expressed as ontologies rather

than standard ontologies or ontology languages.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Is everything expressed in UML an ontology?

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: '''Q4: process suggestions?'''

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: if we are dealing with a large group trying to come to consensus a variation of

Robert's rules of order may work. The requirement that a motion must be put in

play tends to help focus the discussion

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: input from Mark Musen: we should have the Communique pretty much into "final draft"

(if not already done) by the time we all walk into the face-to-face workshop

... we could use the F2F time more wisely

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we should get people to involve early .. and definitely to be cognizant that this

is a 3-month affair and NOT a 2-day conference

[[FabianNeuhaus|Fabian Neuhaus]]: I support Mark's point, during the last summit people who did not participate

until the face-to-face meeting made last minute requests for changes which

derailed the schedule for the Summit

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: Inviting people who may not want to "participate" but may be willing to review

the output may be worth considering.

[[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]: Capturing the rationales for the parts of a communique would help prevent

participants from recapitulating the debate that resulted in the draft communique.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: It should be possible to create a "voting" comunity

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: '''Q5: any other suggestions?'''

[[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]: I think that if you want to have a clear message for industry standards owners,

there should be some consistent definition of what an ontology is, including some

consistent approach to what would be defined as good ontology for the content of

that standard.

[[PeterBenson|Peter Benson]]: absolutely

[[User:KennethBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]: Have we started asking individuals to select roles in the summit planning,

organization and logistics?

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: we'll be putting up the [ontology-summit] mailing list ... those who are involved

(or responded to) today's sesion will automatically be subscribed.

[[DougHolmes|Doug Holmes]]: Adios

[[PeterYim|Peter P. Yim]]: Thanks everyone ... meeting adjourned 2008.12.18-12:06pm PST

- end of chat transcript -

[[Category:Event_Meeting]] [[Category:OntologySummit2009]]

ConferenceCall 2008 12 18 - Revision history

imported>KennethBaclawski: Fix PurpleMediaWiki references