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OntologySummit2015 Track C Session - Thu 2015-03-19     (1)

Session Co-chairs: MikeBennett     (1A)

This Track C session (Decision Making in Different Domains) will explore several approaches to automated inference in applications ranging from complex event processing and situation awareness to manufacturing.     (1C)

  • Date: Thursday, 19-Mar-2015     (1G1)
  • Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 5:30pm CET / 4:30pm GMT / 1630 UTC     (1G2)
  • Expected Call Duration: ~1.5 hours     (1G3)
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Attendees     (1H)

Chat Transcript     (1I)

[09:31] Mark Underwood: There is modest live tweeting at #ontologysummit     (1I2)

[09:32] Mike Bennett: == Introduction to the Session ==     (1I3)

[09:33] Ravi Sharma: I am sorry I have to log off in a while to meet other commitments, regards, Ravi     (1I4)

[09:35] Mike Bennett: == MarcoRospocher presenting ==     (1I5)

[09:40] Peter P. Yim: @MikeBennett, it would nice if the speakers' affiliations are provided on the session page, and we can access a biosketch of the speakers on their namesake page ... would you please add?     (1I6)

[09:41] Mike Bennett: Will do.     (1I7)

[09:41] Peter P. Yim: thanks, Mike     (1I8)

[09:42] Mike Bennett: Click on video in the slide at this point (slide 9?)     (1I9)

[09:51] Todd Schneider: Marco, Why were relations/attributes about a 'user' conflated with the notion of 'user' (as shown on slide 17)?     (1I11)

[09:51] Amanda Vizedom: Question for @MarcoRospocher - re slide 20? on the Data - You describe modeling meteorological data, including observations and forecasts. Did you make of any Standards for this kind of data? In particular, did you use (ontological models of) such standards in your ontological modelings of the data?     (1I12)

[09:56] Bobbin Teegarden: @Marco What are you using for the rules? How execute them?     (1I14)

[09:57] Mark Underwood: Q for Marco: How much fragility would be introduced by changes in the sensor source formats, measures, time frame, etc. (I.e., some typical IoT sensor scenarios)     (1I15)

[10:01] Mark Underwood: Would be interesting to compare text planning module in PESCaDO with Watson's approac     (1I16)

[10:02] Ram D. Sriram: @marco: Interesting scenario. It will be useful to see if we can integrate this with the work by Ramesh Jain at University of California-Irvine     (1I17)

[10:05] Mark Underwood: @Marco- thanks for presenting     (1I18)

[10:06] Mike Bennett: == BillMurdock presenting ==     (1I19)

[10:07] MarcoRospocher: @Todd: we actually represent relations /attributes both as subclass types, and object/data properties. The reason for having also the class, was to have an easy way for checking just on class the if that user has that property (most of the restictions were actually owl:hasValue)     (1I20)

[10:10] Mike Bennett: @Bill was there a difference between the requirements of Jeopardy (where the quizmaster gives you an answer and asks for a question), versus more conventional question answering scenarios where you start with a question and want an answer? Or are these indistinguishable in this architecture?     (1I21)

[10:10] MarcoRospocher: @Amanda: we started a little bit "naively" with some basic representation of the environmental data. But you can think about replacing them with some more standard formalization (e.g., SSN ontology). We just used the minimum information needed for the PESCaDO task.     (1I22)

[10:11] Todd Schneider: Marco, thank you for the explanation. Is the ontology/ontologies publicly available?     (1I23)

[10:13] MarcoRospocher: @Bobbin: we use Apache Jena RETE. Rules of the form "A and B and C ---> D,E"     (1I24)

[10:14] Bobbin Teegarden: Thank you, Marco.     (1I25)

[10:15] MarcoRospocher: @Mark: if the changes do not alter the formalization, no problem. Of course, if there are major changes (change of type of measurement, unit of measure, etc), the data component has to be adapted accordingly.     (1I26)

[10:16] Amanda Vizedom: @Marco, thanks. I'm thinking more about standards for the content-type/domain. For example, I wondered whether you might have used domain standards such as the Climate and Forecast Standards ( to help in modeling and reasoning over CF data from different sources.     (1I27)

[10:17] MarcoRospocher: @Todd: you can download the ontology from here: The paper describing more in details it is here:     (1I28)

[10:18] Todd Schneider: Marco, Great.     (1I29)

[10:20] MarcoRospocher: @Amanda: Didn't know about that, thanks for the pointer! Was is already available in 2010 when we started the PESCaDO project? If so, I had missed it :(     (1I30)

[10:20] Mark Underwood: @Marco - Is your team pursuing any specific IoT use cases?     (1I31)

[10:21] MarcoRospocher: @Todd: my fault, sorry! For some reason the full stop at the end of the sentence became part of the URL, the correct URL is this:     (1I32)

[10:23] MarcoRospocher: @Mark: the center I'm working in is into IoT , smart cities, etc research. However, we don't have at the moment some specific use case on what I've presented today.     (1I33)

[10:23] Amanda Vizedom: Marco - The CF standards have been around for a decade or more, I think. However, they are not in an ontological form (yet). I'm ontologizing them now as a small part of a NASA project, so that data elements conforming to particular standards can be so linked, inheriting and extending as needed the standard's semantics. I was curious, in part, whether someone else had ontologized the standards already. :-)     (1I34)

[10:25] MarcoRospocher: @Amanda: great! I'm looking forward to see the ontological formalization when ready. In what I've done, I simplified a lot the things for the data we were handling in PESCaDO.     (1I35)

[10:26] MarcoRospocher: @Ram: can you provide some pointers to the Ramesh Jain at University of California-Irvine? that would be great!     (1I36)

[10:27] Amanda Vizedom: @Marco. I understand, thanks. For this project, it will not be up to me whether the CFStandards ontology - or other modules - are released publicly. But I hope that they will, and I'll be sure to convey that there is interest.     (1I37)

[10:28] Ram D. Sriram: @Marco: I will ask Ramesh to send you the information     (1I38)

[10:28] MarcoRospocher: @Amanda: OK, thanks!     (1I39)

[10:29] MarcoRospocher: @Ram: thanks, some pointers to publication on his work related to what I presented today would be great! Thanks again.     (1I40)

[10:33] MarcoRospocher: @all: Thanks a lot for the invitation, it was a pleasure! A lot of interesting and useful feedback!     (1I41)

[10:33] Mike Bennett: Thanks Marco!     (1I42)

[10:34] Mike Bennett: @Peter the PPTX opens here, but (in Chrome) it doesn't open into a window, it shows up like a download and you can then click on it. Other browsers may act differently. File seems OK.     (1I43)

[10:34] Mark Underwood: @Bill Can u talk abt adaptations to Watson frameworks for use in smart cities where a mix of automated (no tolerance for "incorrect" answers) and manual (municipal specialists available) - esp given IBM's smart cities initiatives     (1I44)

[10:43] Steve Ray: @MatthewGiannini: Do you have an information model or ontology for building automation resources, or just a set of tags? I don't see any downloadable model on your website.     (1I45)

[10:44] Mike Bennett: @Peter Great! that link works OK; the link given upstream in this chat log had the additional "v4" in the URI and does not return the PDF. The link on the session page does.     (1I46)

[10:47] John Morris: How detailed does Project Haystack get? I am familiar with a "boiler on-boarding problem" -- 100's of boiler model variants, each one of which is a "little different" (in dozens of major model groups) -- so that on-boarding a thousand buildings is a technical and cost challenge. A boiler management ontology-based meta model would be helpful. There is some work done on this in ontology under the "field service" domain I believe. Anything may I ask please in the world of Haystack? Thank you.     (1I47)

[10:56] Amanda Vizedom: @MatthewGiannini - It seems to me that for Haystack and SkySpark, "tags" is being used very differently than the typical use. In particular, what you're calling tags have a defined relationship to the thing tagged, yes?     (1I48)

[10:58] Amanda Vizedom: ... perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the "tags" *are* the relationships. Are the values then literals?     (1I49)

[11:02] Matthew Giannini: Energy model in haystack. Includes tags that talk about how we relate meters to their equipment via refs (points and equip use "electMeterLoad" tag for example)     (1I50)

[11:04] Bobbin Teegarden: @William regarding the 'learned models', are they temporary ontologies for the topic at hand, are they stored for later use, or stored and 'digested' to a larger set of knowledge?     (1I51)

[11:05] Steve Ray: @Amanda and @Matthew: It looks to me like the tags are sometimes entities, sometimes properties or attributes, and sometimes relationships. The tags look like good raw material to actually formalize and interrelate, but they aren't formalized yet.     (1I52)

[11:07] Amanda Vizedom: @SteveRay -- I'm getting same impression as I go back through slides and through online materials. If you wanted to make fully formalized, would be similar to working with spreadsheets/tables where precise semantics of column may vary by row subject...     (1I53)

[11:07] Mike Bennett: SSNO work at W3C     (1I54)

[11:09] Amanda Vizedom: Must drop off now. Thanks to all!     (1I56)

[11:10] Bobbin Teegarden: Thanks, Peter.     (1I57)

[11:11] Steve Ray: @Matthew: I see entries on your website like "An elecPanel must be either a sitePanel or a subPanelOf, but never both." and what I'm looking for is somewhere that is stated in a machine-readable form.     (1I58)

[11:13] Matthew Giannini: @SteveRay: not presently, but I think that is an eventual goal for the project     (1I60)

[11:14] Steve Ray: @Matthew: I'm very glad to hear that, and I think this community today has the right kind of people to help make that happen.     (1I62)

[11:17] Mark Underwood: @JohnMorris +1 for a boiler model (probably of main interest in the old building, frozen landscape of the Northeast)     (1I63)

[11:17] Mike Bennett: SPC201 Facility smart grid integration model     (1I64)

[11:18] Joel Bender: :: waves 'hi'     (1I65)

[11:18] Matthew Giannini: To follow up with me on Project Haystack and other initiatives that people have mentioned, please contact me at matthew at skyfoundry dot com     (1I66)

[11:19] Mark Underwood: Also relevant: last year's Ontology Summit on #BigData, as IoT is a principal source of same     (1I67)

[11:19] Steve Ray: @Mike: Actually, FSGIM stands for Facility Smart Grid INFORMATION Model     (1I68)

[11:19] Mike Bennett: Thanks, correction noted.     (1I69)

[11:21] Gary Berg-Cross: Your AHU example shows some of the analysis steps you might go thru in building a conceptual model & ontology leveraging some semantic sensor network concepts and other ontologies. discharge and return are Types of Air. Sensors may be temp, humidity, CO2 etc.     (1I70)

[11:23] Steve Ray: @Gary: +1     (1I71)

[11:24] Mark Underwood: I have to exit - thanks to all, and an invitation to attend our Face to Face meeting in April 13-14 in Arlington VA (DC area)     (1I72)

[11:24] Mark Underwood: We would love to have a rep from the Watson team     (1I73)

[11:25] Mark Underwood: @Matthew - if u are nearby we are also inviting demos to concrete-ize the challenges     (1I74)

[11:27] Gary Berg-Cross: @ Mathew We can follow up later via email if there is an interest     (1I75)

[11:28] Matthew Giannini: thanks Gary     (1I76)

[11:28] Matthew Giannini: will touch base wit you offline     (1I77)

[11:29] Bobbin Teegarden: @William: does Watson actually use OWL ontologies for the modeling?     (1I78)

[11:29] Matthew Giannini: @Mark will check availability for the conference to see if I can go. can you email me offline so i can get back with you on that?     (1I79)

[11:29] Gary Berg-Cross: Next week is another Synthesis!!     (1I80)

[11:30] Peter P. Yim: great talks, thank you to all 3 speakers, and, of course to the chair and organizers for putting this session together!     (1I81)

[11:30] BillMurdock: @BobbinTeegarden: Hmm. I believe Watson Paths uses OWL for the ontology that it uses to create new questions from observations, but I am not 100% sure of that. Also, some of the answer typing capabilities may use OWL for types of entities. I am not sure.     (1I82)

[11:31] Bobbin Teegarden: @William tnx again     (1I83)