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Joint RulesReasoningLP (s05) and OntologyBasedStandards (s07) mini-series session - Thu 2014_01_09     (1)

Program: A Joint session for the Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications (RulesReasoningLP) mini-series and the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series     (1A)

Topic: Rule Standards: Common Logic, RuleML, and RIF     (1B)

Session Co-chairs: Professor HaroldBoley (U of New Brunswick), Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon BBN Technologies) & Professor AdrianPaschke (Freie Universit��t Berlin) ... intro slides     (1C)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1D)

  • Dial-in:     (1I4)
    • Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... (long distance cost may apply)     (1I4A)
    • Skype: joinconference (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... ref.)     (1I4B)
      • when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1I4B1)
      • Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...     (1I4B2)
        • Add the contact "joinconference" to your skype contact list first. To participate in the teleconference, make a skype call to "joinconference", then open the dial pad (see platform-specific instructions below) and enter the Conference ID: 141184# when prompted.     (1I4B2A)
        • you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)     (1I4B2B)
      • Can't find Skype Dial pad? ...     (1I4B3)
        • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"     (1I4B3A)
        • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... (ref.)     (1I4B3B)
      • if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1I4B4)
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ ... view-only password: "ontolog"     (1I5)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1I5A)
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.     (1I5B)
    • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").     (1I6A)
    • You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1I6B)
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20140109@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1I6C)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1I7)
    • Nominally, when a presentation is in progress, the moderator will mute everyone, except for the speaker.     (1I7A)
    • To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6" (please mute your phone, especially if you are in a noisy surrounding, or if you are introducing noise, echoes, etc. into the conference line.)     (1I7B)
    • we will usually save all questions and discussions till after all presentations are through. You are encouraged to jot down questions onto the chat-area in the mean time (that way, they get documented; and you might even get some answers in the interim, through the chat.)     (1I7C)
    • During the Q&A / discussion segment (when everyone is muted), If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please raise your hand (virtually) by clicking on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the session moderator (again, press "*7" on your phone to un-mute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*6" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1I7D)
  • RSVP to peter.yim@cim3.com appreciated, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)     (1I9)

Attendees     (1J)

  • Expecting:     (1J2)
    • (please add yourself to the list above if you are a member of the community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com> with the event title/date and your name and affiliation)     (1J2B)

Abstract     (1K)

This is the 5th session of the RulesReasoningLP mini-series - a series of virtual panel sessions, and the associated online discourse, co-championed by some members of the Ontolog community who value the importance of the subject matter and would want to bring together those who are knowledgeable or interested into a dialog. The mini-series program will cover the topics that encapsulates the ontology-driven applications that will generally fall under "Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications."     (1K2)

The focus of this session is on standards for rule languages. Panelists include Michael Grüninger (Common Logic Second Edition), Adrian Paschke (The RuleML Perspective on Deliberation-Reaction Standards), and Michael Kifer (The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects).     (1K3)

After the panelists briefings, there will be time for Q&A and an open discussion among the panel and all the participants.     (1K4)

See more details at: RulesReasoningLP (homepage for this mini-series)     (1K5)

Briefings     (1K6)

model-theoretic semantics is an extension of first-order logic Since its publication as an International Standard in 2007, numerous applications of Common Logic have led to the identification of several problems and shortcomings of the language. This talk will give an overview of the current draft for the Second Edition of Common Logic that addresses these issues.     (1K6B)

  • Professor AdrianPaschke (Freie Universit��t Berlin) - "The RuleML Perspective on Deliberation-Reaction Standards" - slides     (1K6C)
    • Abstract: RuleML is a family of XML languages whose modular system of schemas permits (Web) rule interchange via semantic profiles and extensions. The Deliberation RuleML subfamily, bridging between Common Logic and RIF, includes Datalog, Horn logic, and First Order Logic. The Reaction RuleML subfamily, extending these standards, includes Production / Condition-Action (CA) and Event-Condition-Action (ECA) rules, the latter allowing Complex Event Processing (CEP). The MYNG tool permits fine-grained schema modularization supporting customized configuration of deliberation-reaction sublanguages within a standardized supremum language family. Translators in Java, ANTLR, and XSLT allow rule interchange between various languages. We discuss RuleML's bridging experience as the rule community is gaining new momentum.     (1K6C1)
    • Reference: see (slides for) an extended version of this presentation here     (1K6C2)
  • Professor MichaelKifer (Stony Brook University) - "The Rule Interchange Format and Its Dialects" - slides     (1K6D)
    • Abstract: The Rule Interchange Format (RIF) is a W3C recommendation for exchanging     (1K6D1)

rules over the Web. It was developed in response to the need for rule-based information processing on the Semantic Web. Despite its humble name, RIF is not just a format and is not primarily about syntax. It is an extensible framework for rule-based languages, called RIF dialects. It includes precise and formal specification of the syntax, semantics, and XML serialization of the dialects. In this talk I will discuss the main principles behind RIF, introduce the RIF extensibility framework, discuss the existing RIF dialects, and ponder about the current status of the standard.     (1K6E)

Agenda     (1L)

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call     (1L2)

Proceedings     (1M)

Please refer to the above ... (details coming!)     (1M1)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session    (1M2)

see raw transcript here.     (1M2A)

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)     (1M2B)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.     (1M2C)

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --     (1M2D)


Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20140109     (1M2E)

2014-01-09 GMT-08:00 [PST]     (1M2F)


[9:15] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the     (1M2G)

Joint RulesReasoningLP (s05) and OntologyBasedStandards (s07) mini-series session - 2014_01_09     (1M2H)

Program: A Joint session for the Ontology, Rules, and Logic Programming for Reasoning and Applications     (1M2I)

(RulesReasoningLP) mini-series and the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series     (1M2J)

Topic: Rule Standards: Common Logic, RuleML, and RIF     (1M2K)

Session Co-chairs:     (1M2L)

Panelists / Briefings:     (1M2P)

Logistics:     (1M2T)

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName     (1M2V)
  • Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute     (1M2W)

(i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)     (1M2Z)

VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100     (1M2AB)

... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#     (1M2AC)

if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it.     (1M2AG)

[9:06] anonymous morphed into Pipauwel     (1M2AP)

[9:16] Peter P. Yim: hello, Pipauwel ... Welcome! ... please morph into your RealName (in wikiword     (1M2AQ)

format) via the "Settings" button/link ... thank you.     (1M2AR)

[9:19] anonymous morphed into Andrea Westerinen     (1M2AS)

[9:23] Pipauwel morphed into Pieter Pauwels     (1M2AT)

[9:23] Pieter Pauwels: okay, just did that     (1M2AU)

[9:26] Peter P. Yim: Thank you, Pieter     (1M2AW)

[9:28] anonymous morphed into Amanda Vizedom     (1M2AX)

[9:31] anonymous morphed into Conrad Bock     (1M2AY)

[9:31] Mike Bennett: [ref. Peter;s verbal comment that the "hum" on the line may have been introduced     (1M2AZ)

by Mike] I am muted locally buzz isn't me?     (1M2AAA)

[9:31] Mike Bennett: I'll redial     (1M2AAB)

[9:32] Mike Bennett: Did it stop? Was using joiconference     (1M2AAC)

[9:32] Amanda Vizedom: It did stop, Mike     (1M2AAE)

[9:32] Mike Bennett: Odd. I could hear it too, which is odd if one is the originator of a noise.     (1M2AAF)

[9:32] anonymous morphed into Tara Athan     (1M2AAG)

[9:33] anonymous morphed into Paul Tyson     (1M2AAH)

[9:33] anonymous morphed into Adrian Paschke     (1M2AAI)

[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into Michael Kifer     (1M2AAJ)

[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into Biplab Sarker     (1M2AAL)

[9:34] Amanda Vizedom: Lots of background noise today. Perhaps people with stuff going on around them     (1M2AAM)

could mute locally, if they don't need to speak now.     (1M2AAN)

[9:34] Mike Bennett: Any quieter? Muted locally of course.     (1M2AAO)

[9:35] Amanda Vizedom: Normal level of background noise now. The star wars effects went away. :-)     (1M2AAP)

[9:48] Peter P. Yim: @MikeBennett ... apologies, it was HensonGraves' phone line, and not yours, that     (1M2AAR)

was injecting the hum earlier!     (1M2AAS)

[9:49] Mike Bennett: @Peter No worries, I changed as many things as I could anyway.     (1M2AAT)

[9:34] anonymous morphed into Pete Rivett     (1M2AAU)

[9:36] anonymous morphed into Dennis Pierson     (1M2AAV)

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Bobbin Teegarden     (1M2AAW)

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Paul Fodor     (1M2AAX)

[9:37] anonymous morphed into Anatoly Levenchuk     (1M2AAY)

[9:37] Peter P. Yim: == Harold Boley started the session ...     (1M2AAZ)

[9:38] anonymous1 morphed into Steve Mandl     (1M2AAAA)

[9:41] anonymous morphed into Benjamin Grosof     (1M2AAAB)

[9:41] anonymous1 morphed into Elizabeth Florescu     (1M2AAAC)

[9:47] LeoObrst1 morphed into Leo Obrst     (1M2AAAD)

[9:41] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Grüninger presenting ... refer to slides under:     (1M2AAAE)

[9:49] Anatoly Levenchuk: [ref. MichaelGruninger's slide#5 enumerating standards that uses     (1M2AAAG)

CommonLogic] What about OMG SBVR (it is ontology standard with reference to Common Logic too)?     (1M2AAAH)

[9:50] Peter P. Yim: @MichaelGruninger: slide#5 - OntoIOp ("OMG" instead of "ISO") ... will supply an     (1M2AAAI)

update to this slide     (1M2AAAJ)

[9:46] Leo Obrst: @MichaelGruninger: do you have an example of something in the Universe of Reference     (1M2AAAK)

that is not in the Universe of Discourse?     (1M2AAAL)

[9:50] Tara Athan: @Leo- the universe of discourse is simply the subset of the universe of reference     (1M2AAAM)

that quantifier range over. It is a matter of design. An upper ontology could use a domain of     (1M2AAAN)

reference containing (only) spatial entities, and have a parthood relation P that describes the     (1M2AAAO)

mereology. The symbol P does not denote any spatial entity, so it is in the universe of reference,     (1M2AAAP)

but not in the universe of discourse.     (1M2AAAQ)

[9:51] anonymous morphed into Tom Tinsley     (1M2AAAR)

[9:53] anonymous morphed into JohnMcClure     (1M2AAAS)

[9:53] anonymous morphed into Joel Bender     (1M2AAAT)

[9:56] anonymous morphed into Rex Brooks     (1M2AAAU)

[10:01] Todd Schneider: @MichaelGruninger, when the CL update is finalized will it be made available     (1M2AAAV)

without charge?     (1M2AAAW)

[10:05] Michael Grüninger: @ToddSchneider -- yes, it will be available without charge, but you will     (1M2AAAX)

need to access it through the ISO website and agree to the copyright terms specified there.     (1M2AAAY)

[10:08] Tara Athan: The free version of the current CL standard can be accessed through this page:     (1M2AAAZ)

[10:26] Peter P. Yim: == Michael Kifer presenting ...     (1M2AAAAC)

[10:31] Harold Boley: Michael K is now on slide 4.     (1M2AAAAD)

[10:32] Leo Obrst: Thanks, Tara. What if you wanted a family of P part relations, and wanted to     (1M2AAAAE)

quantify over those: then P would go into the universe of discourse? That's quantifying over     (1M2AAAAF)

relations, however. Maybe my example here is somewhat contrived.     (1M2AAAAG)

[10:34] Michael Grüninger: @LeoObrst: Yes, that is what is going on in slide 14 (titled Segregated     (1M2AAAAH)

and Unsegregated Dialects)     (1M2AAAAI)

[10:35] Benjamin Grosof: It will be interesting to figure out the RuleLog angle of the open CL     (1M2AAAAJ)

semantic/syntactic issues. of the semantic and syntactic issues listed for CL by MichaelGruninger.     (1M2AAAAK)

One such issue for Rulelog may be circularity in inclusion (KB import).     (1M2AAAAL)

[10:35] Leo Obrst: @AdrianPaschke: can you only have negation-as-failure for Reaction rules? Or also     (1M2AAAAM)

a form of logical negation?     (1M2AAAAN)

[11:08] Adrian Paschke: @Leo: negation in the definition of complex event definitions (event     (1M2AAAAO)

patterns) is typically an event operator, which means this event should not occur within an interval     (1M2AAAAP)

of events or time intervals. Negation can also occur in the condition part of reaction rules. Here     (1M2AAAAQ)

it can be negation as failure as in normal logic programs or strong negation as in extended logic     (1M2AAAAR)

programs. There are also extensions of production rules for complex event processing where the     (1M2AAAAS)

negation is a kind of inflationary negation.     (1M2AAAAT)

[10:50] Leo Obrst: @MichaelKifer: if one wanted to map between CL and RIF, I guess it would be to the     (1M2AAAAU)

RIF-FLD, right? Has that been considered?     (1M2AAAAV)

[10:53] Benjamin Grosof: In regard to RIF dialects development: Also, one of the first dialects     (1M2AAAAW)

drafted under RIF FLD is for Rulelog (earlier called SILK). Currently this is being developed via     (1M2AAAAX)

RuleML, with probable submission to W3C and OASIS.     (1M2AAAAY)

[10:54] Benjamin Grosof: SILK project was one of the first implementations of RIF-BLD.     (1M2AAAAZ)

[10:55] Todd Schneider: @MichaelGruninger, What is the prognosis for commercial support for CL? In     (1M2AAAAAA)

particular reasoners?     (1M2AAAAAB)

[10:57] Bob Kowalski: Are inductive definition included in Common Logic?     (1M2AAAAAC)

[10:57] Tara Athan: Actually it is possible to have a segregated dialect and still quantify over     (1M2AAAAAD)

[10:58] Michael Grüninger: @BobKowalski: No, inductive definitions are not covered by Common Logic.     (1M2AAAAAF)

[10:58] Harold Boley: @Benjamin, is your Question about CL or RIF?     (1M2AAAAAH)

[11:01] Benjamin Grosof: my question is about CL     (1M2AAAAAI)

[11:02] Paul Tyson: @MichaelKifer on slide 20 all hyperlinks go to w3c rif-bld spec.     (1M2AAAAAJ)

[11:03] Michael Kifer: @PaulTyson: sorry, the FLD link should be changed: bld->fld ... [PeterYim:     (1M2AAAAAK)

slide has now been updated]     (1M2AAAAAL)

[11:08] Adrian Paschke: have to leave now to catch my train.     (1M2AAAAAM)

[11:08] Alex Shkotin: @Peter, it should be interesting to invite Hets project somebody to talk:-)     (1M2AAAAAN)

[--:--] Peter P. Yim: @AlexShkotin, we have had presentations of that before (a little while back,     (1M2AAAAAO)

JohnBateman-TillMossakowski talk     (1M2AAAAAS)

[11:08] Amanda Vizedom: Glad to hear that, in CL, things like provenance that are currently in     (1M2AAAAAT)

(non-machine-useful) annotations will likely be represented semantically, machine-readably, and     (1M2AAAAAU)

therefore presumably available for reasoning.     (1M2AAAAAV)

[11:10] Adrian Paschke: (have to leave) if you have questions about RuleML I will respond later via     (1M2AAAAAW)

the chat or you can send me an email. bye.     (1M2AAAAAX)

[11:10] Benjamin Grosof: @MichaelKifer: how would the example on MichaelGruninger's slide 10 be     (1M2AAAAAY)

treated in Rulelog, i.e., in Hilog?     (1M2AAAAAZ)

[11:16] Tara Athan: In hilog, don't you have to explicitly state that the new relation is a hilog     (1M2AAAAAAA)

[11:10] Michael Kifer: @Benjamin: I need to think about MichaelGruninger's slide 10.     (1M2AAAAAAC)

[11:15] Ali Hashemi: @MichaelGruninger - do you know if the PrIKL project is still under development?     (1M2AAAAAAD)

[11:30] Michael Grüninger: @AliHashemi: I am not sure about the current status of PrIKL. We should     (1M2AAAAAAF)

contact Fabian Neuhaus     (1M2AAAAAAG)

[11:15] Leo Obrst: Related to my question about a mapping between CL and RIF-FLD, perhaps the mapping     (1M2AAAAAAH)

between those should actually occur in OntoIOp?     (1M2AAAAAAI)

[11:23] Amanda Vizedom: @BenjaminGrosof, Michael Grüninger -- this is important: the mapping itself     (1M2AAAAAAJ)

happens in a theory, and the original one need not inherit from it.     (1M2AAAAAAK)

[11:32] Tara Athan: RIF-FLD is not a language. You would have to define a particular specialization     (1M2AAAAAAL)

before using OntoIOp to map it to CL.     (1M2AAAAAAM)

[11:30] Ali Hashemi: I'm unsure there is a fundamental disagreement. Theories can extend or interpret     (1M2AAAAAAN)

one another in a variety of ways. Being able to track and exploit conservative extensions leads to a     (1M2AAAAAAO)

lot of useful outcomes...     (1M2AAAAAAP)

[11:30] Ali Hashemi: (I guess I got lost as to where the disagreement is)     (1M2AAAAAAQ)

[11:33] Amanda Vizedom: I agree Ali. I think the initial disagreement arose from a difference in the     (1M2AAAAAAR)

kind of uses people were thinking of; there seems to be agreement on the general point that you can     (1M2AAAAAAS)

usefully have nonconservative extension when you have the right kind of awareness / specification of     (1M2AAAAAAT)

the (non)-inheritance relations between the original and extension-including theories.     (1M2AAAAAAU)

[11:33] Ali Hashemi: @BenjaminGrosof and @MichaelKifer, I'm unsure what the position is re     (1M2AAAAAAV)

conservative extensions     (1M2AAAAAAW)

[11:33] Michael Kifer: @TaraAthan: You are right. One needs to define a CL dialect as a     (1M2AAAAAAX)

specialization of FLD     (1M2AAAAAAY)

[11:34] Tara Athan: @MichaelKifer - it would be an interesting exercise.     (1M2AAAAAAZ)

[11:35] Ali Hashemi: It seems useful that any system should be able to discriminate what type of     (1M2AAAAAAAA)

extensions or mappings two theories have to one another.     (1M2AAAAAAAB)

[11:36] Tara Athan: @Ali- yes. The original CL semantics did not allow a choice. In the revision,     (1M2AAAAAAAC)

there is a choice.     (1M2AAAAAAAD)

[11:37] Amanda Vizedom: @Ali - yes, and that is essential to defining modules, imports,     (1M2AAAAAAAE)

interoperability, spindle structures, etc. But I think it is also true that it gets insufficient     (1M2AAAAAAAF)

attention (in that people do mapping without tending to it.     (1M2AAAAAAAG)

[11:36] Michael Kifer: @AlexShkotin: I guess, we agreed to disagree. Our position is that it we don't     (1M2AAAAAAAH)

think that the mappings should be conservative extensions, but, if necessary, the mappings can be     (1M2AAAAAAAI)

restricted to ensure that they are conservative.     (1M2AAAAAAAJ)

[11:24] Paul Tyson: Is it off-topic to ask who is using these languages (or another rule language) in     (1M2AAAAAAAK)

an industrial (not academic) application? Which language(s)? Why (or why not)? What for?     (1M2AAAAAAAL)

[11:31] Alex Shkotin: @PaulTyson session 2013_12_19 was very interesting ... may be here     (1M2AAAAAAAM)

[11:32] Paul Tyson: @Alex thanks, I have not caught up on all the preceding sessions.     (1M2AAAAAAAO)

[11:33] Peter P. Yim: Great session!     (1M2AAAAAAAP)

[11:33] Peter P. Yim: Join us again, same time, next Thursday, when we will be featuring the     (1M2AAAAAAAQ)

Ontology Summit 2014 Launch Event, on 16-Jan-2014 ... mark your calendars and watch out for further     (1M2AAAAAAAR)

announcements and developing details at:     (1M2AAAAAAAS)

[11:33] Leo Obrst: Thanks, all. Very good session!     (1M2AAAAAAAU)

[11:34] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:32am PST --     (1M2AAAAAAAX)

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --     (1M2AAAAAAAY)

Additional Resources     (1N)


For the record ...     (1N5)

How To Join (while the session is in progress)     (1O)


This page has been migrated from the OntologWiki - Click here for original page     (1O4)