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Ontolog Forum

OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14

  • Topic: OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call
  • Chair: Dr. SteveRay

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009
  • Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 7:30pm CEST / 6:30pm BST / 17:30 UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: ~1.5 hours
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  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.

Attendees

  • Expecting:
    • Bo Newman
    • Ravi Sharma
    • Frank Olken
    • Michelle Raymond (delayed entry likely)
    • ... if you are coming to the meeting, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above, or e-mail <peter.yim@cim3.com> so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...

Agenda Ideas

please insert below (along with your name for follow-up purposes)

  • ref Steve's invitation
  • OntologySummit2009 postmortem - review what went well this year, and what should be improved
  • follow-up action planning
  • discuss preliminary thoughts for the next summit
  • Discuss a process that would be reusable year to year for integrating different Summit threads and see a pattern or value to advancing the ontology themes and the practice of the disciplines of ontology including Upper ontologies, standards, architectures, applications domains and success areas and gaps.(RaviSharma)
  • ...

Resources

Agenda & Proceedings

(see process above to participate in the discussion)

  • Issues that arose
    • Projects as examples vs. endorsed priorities
    • Merits of particular approaches and efforts
      • Limitations of SI units
      • UN/CEFACT CCTS as "ontological"
  • Next steps a process for addressing or resolving issues
    • Ongoing discussion forum
    • Checking in with the example projects
    • Identifying and tracking other good examples
  • Logistical feedback
  • Next year's summit ideas
  • Next meeting: in about 3 months for our first "project progress report" session; but probably a session much sooner to delver into the "Unit of Measure" ontology details ... watch out for announcements on the mailing list

Transcript of the online chat during the session

(slightly edited for clarity)

VNC2: Welcome to the OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14

OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call

Chair: Dr. Steve Ray

VNC2: Please refer to session details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_05_14

anonymous1 morphed into Bahareh Heravi

Peter P. Yim: will " anonymous" participants please morph into their WikiWord-name-based identity by clicking on the "Settings" button (at top center)

anonymous1 morphed into David Leal

anonymous morphed into Dennis Thomas

anonymous2 morphed into Frank Chum

anonymous3 morphed into Line Pouchard

anonymous4 morphed into Kurt Conrad

anonymous6 morphed into David Price

anonymous1 morphed into Gerald Radack

anonymous5 morphed into BillMcCarthy

anonymous7 morphed into Mark Carlisle

anonymous2: THis is Duane - how do I morph?

anonymous morphed into Pat Hayes

Pat Hayes: Duane: hit Settings, at top.

anonymous2 morphed into Duane Nickull

Duane Nickull: thanks

Mike Bennett: Bill Nichols sends apologies

anonymous morphed into Brand Niemann

anonymous morphed into Doug Holmes

anonymous1 morphed into DavidCoggeshall

Pat Hayes morphed into Pat Hayes

Pat Hayes: (ref. the Communique wording ... end first paragraph) I still have problems

with this wording. "..., as illustrated..."can be read as a restriction,

meaning "as opposed to others we do not mention." Why not put a stop

after 'to standards', and have the illustrations in a separate sentence.

Mike Bennett: Units as a concept also needs to be able to deal with monetary units and so on

- whether as part of the physical units ontology or in a wider framework.

Pat Hayes: How do I re-mute myself?

Peter P. Yim: " *2 " to mute your phone again

Pat Hayes: tnx

anonymous1 morphed into Katherine Goodier

Mike Bennett: Note that under the Financial heading there are 2 things:

The EDM Council Semantics Repository which I can happily

provide regular reports on; and the more aspirational

agenda item from Bill Nichols, though I assume he would be

able to provide updates, but it's not "an ontology" as the

EDMCouncil repository is

Steve Ray: Discussion and a quick poll on which mailing list we should use,

for our "ontology-based standards" discussion, going forward

Pat Hayes: I would strongly support having a separate list.

The general forum is already overloaded.

DeborahMacPherson: ontologies and standards list is fine with me, there is

too much traffic on ontolog proper

Howard Mason: Concur - we need to separate theoretical discussions from practical developments

Katherine Goodier: I think it went better than in previous years. We are getting

much better at this. Peter has great pictures of most of us already!

Pavithra Kenjige: Facebook

Gerald Radack: We could actually use Facebook, rather than trying to duplicate it on the Wiki.

Pavithra Kenjige: use facebook

Pat Hayes: Laurent: agreed this is a nice idea. I can make a webpage if people

can send me their photos. But using facebook is a neat idea.

Mike Bennett: Linked-in is Facebook for grown-ups

Line Pouchard: Facebook is fine with me

Pavithra Kenjige: Okay... we can post a picture!

Mike Bennett: Can yoiu clarify what Yes means?

Line Pouchard: I got overloaded with the theoretical discussions,

separating them from practical discussions seemed interesting.

Peter P. Yim: for onward discussion using a new list - vote count 18

Peter P. Yim: for onward discussion using the existing [ontolog-forum] list - vote count 3

Peter P. Yim: I'll set up a new list to handle the discussion then

(give me a few days to get that done)

Peter P. Yim: note that Ontolog should just be a "good conversation"

(in John Seely Brown's sense of a "community of practice")

... real project should be executed in more appropriate

settings like ISO, OASIS, W3C, etc.

David Price: Quarterly update telecon sounds like a good idea.

Line Pouchard: What Peter suggested seems a good idea. Not everyone want

to follow every project

Line Pouchard: I referred to having several quarterly Tcons where

projects are distributed, as reviewing all projects

in one Tcon seems too much.

anonymous1 morphed into Pat Cassidy

BillMcCarthy: If we set up a separate financial list, ISO/IEC 15944-4

(the Open-edi accounting & economic ontology (REA-based)

is definitely interested in working with Mike Bennett and others.

Pat Hayes: Bill, can you put me on the Cc list for news of that topic?

Thanks. phayes[at]ihmc.us

Mike Bennett: @Bill: great news

Mike Bennett: @Bill we should talk about this more off line

Pat Hayes: pass on my comment, it was only an endorsement of

Peter's comment on the role of ontolog.

Peter P. Yim: we hope every project will maintain a project-page

on the Ontolog Wiki ... and point us to their work site

(say at an ISO WG, OASIS TC, etc.)

Mike Bennett: Thanks for the reminder Peter. Are there any

special requirements for how we do that or is just

a matter of creating a new page?

Peter P. Yim: @ Mike Bennett: there is an (optional) project page

template that one can use as a reference -

see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidK

Mike Bennett: Thanks, will do that

Peter P. Yim: for those who need a collaborative work environment (CWE)

for their project, Ontolog will be happy to incubate

the project (on the Ontolog-CWE) while they look for

a "home" for their project(s)

Katherine Goodier: Can we all indicate which standards we are

interested in using our edit ability to this page?

Frank Chum: Katherine, I'm interested in Ontology and Standards for Oil and Gas.

Katherine Goodier: Thanks, Frank. I will start a little table for our meeting notes....

David Leal: Katherine, I'm interested in Oil and Gas and Units

Katherine Goodier: Thanks David!

Line Pouchard: Katherine: I am interested in Connecting ISO/IEC 11179

to data sets and geospatial Catalog mediation.

Katherine Goodier: Thanks Line!

Steve Ray: Question: what topic would you suggest for next year's summit?

Frank Chum: Since there are a lot of interests recently on UOM, may I suggest

upper ontology as a topic for next year's summit conference?

Mike Bennett: Agree with upper ontology and /or foundational ontology,

ontology framework and all that (including what those terms

mean and what's useful)

Frank Chum: Topic for next year: Business Cases and Use Cases

Peter P. Yim: topic for the next summit (this was first proposed by Barry Smith

after Ontology Summit 2008 - education and training

(to give the world more) ontologists

Frank Chum: Upper Ontology as standards

Michael Grüninger: Collecting use cases (semantic integration, decision support,

search) that demonstrate the benefit of ontologies to

ontology-skeptics

Pat Hayes: +1 to MichaelGruninger's idea. We need some evidential support

for any thesis (such as the utility of an 'upper ontology')

before trying to convince others of it. Right now we have

little more than religious fervor for most of these topics, seems to me.

Pat Cassidy: One possibility for next year's summit is the use of ontologies

in natural language processing tasks. I think this is important

because from what I have seen thus far, any complex ontology

will be very hard to use without a good NL interface to the ontology.

A well-functioning interface will be both a tool to make an ontology

easier to use and a demonstration of how it can be used. The interface

could implement a controlled English, using a vocabulary of a

few thousand words.

Frank Chum: Michael, ditto

Mike Bennett: Sorry, got to drop off for another call

Peter P. Yim: bye, Mike .. thanks for coming!

Laurent Liscia: My own experience is that there are very few ontology skeptics -

mostly people who know nothing about ontologies.

Laurent Liscia: Adoption is key - and we're not talking about "marketing" somehow.

Or popularization. These are dreded but critical words.

Pat Hayes: @Laurent: my experience is the opposite. BUt in any case we must be

very careful not to oversell, to risk a backlash. Anyone with

an AI background knows the horror stories of the AI winter.

FWIW, I am something of an ontology skeptic myself.

Pavithra Kenjige: Unless you have business use case one can have do the roi

Frank Chum: People seeing use cases can spark ideas of how they would use ontology

in their own environment.

Duane Nickull: agree

{{{ Duane Nickull: the interface has to be easy to understand. In 1997 we developed a natural language interface similar to the wolfram alpha one for GoXML. users loved being able to ask questions like "find me a {noun} {that is} a {ontology concept}. }}}

David Price: This conversation no longer has any value. Steve ... suggest stopping it for now.

Laurent Liscia: I have to drop off - but @ Pat Hayes: I'm noticing that

we are raising the issue of AI again. And I would argue

that this is not a dirty acronym. It was a winter for

a lot of reasons - but now it's Spring

Laurent Liscia: Toodaloo.

Frank Chum: Topic: Getting Ontology into the Mainstream ... (Peter)

Pat Hayes: A topic might be >>barriers to ontology use<<, which allows

discussion of use cases and also attempts to give

more general analyses of issues of applying ontologies

in practice. Even Pat C.'s topic might fit in there

DeborahMacPherson: Need to sign off - will look for the new list and thanks!

Frank Chum: A more positive language would be preferred

Peter P. Yim: I suggest we pick our Summit topic in terms of its "strategic" value

to our agenda, which, for Ontolog (although Ontolog is not the

only organizer) is to "to advancing the field of ontology,

ontological engineering and semantic technology, and advocating

their adoption into mainstream applications and international standards."

Michael Grüninger: I like PatHayes' suggestion.

David Price: I like PatHayes' suggestion too. I also like the use of the word "barriers".

David Price: That also lays the basis for future summits ... to address longer term barriers.

Peter P. Yim: +1 on PatHayes' suggestion

Frank Chum: How about overcoming barriers

Pat Hayes: Sign off.

Kurt Conrad: That was "naturalist decision making"?

Pat Hayes: Naturalistic decision making (NDM)

Kurt Conrad: Thanks, Pat

David Price: What are we going to do any time soon on Units?

Can we set up a telecon to follow-up soon?

Frank Chum: signing off... Thanks everyone!

David Leal: Michel Bohms has offered to host a registry of units ontology

activities on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/w3pm/wiki/Main_Page.

This could be a good idea with information about status,

scope and ambitions.

Duane Nickull: thanks everyone!

Katherine Goodier: So long all

Line Pouchard: thank you all

Steve Ray: Thank you all for your participation.

Peter P. Yim: thank you ... meeting adjourned 12:09pm PDT

Audio Recording of this Session

  • To download the audio recording of the session, click here
    • the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
  • Conference Date and Time: 14-May-2009 10:43am~12:10pm PDT
  • Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 26 Minutes
  • Recording File Size: 9.8 MB (in mp3 format)

= session adjourned: 12:09pm PDT =

--

notes taken by: Peter P. Yim / 2009.05.14-12:10 PDT;

All participants, please review and edit to enhance accuracy and granularity of the documented proceedings.

For the record ...

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