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OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14     (1)

  • Topic: OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call     (1A)

  • Shared-screen support (VNC session) will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/     (1D5)
    • view-only password: "ontolog"     (1D5A)
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.     (1D5B)
  • Discussions and Q & A:     (1D6)
    • (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"     (1D6A)
    • You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based (IBM created and supported) soaphub chat session by:     (1D6B)
      • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.     (1D6C1)
    • (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)     (1D6D)
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20090514@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!     (1D6E)
  • RSVP to peter.yim@cim3.com appreciated, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendee" list below (if you are a member of the team.)     (1D7)
  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.     (1D9)

Attendees     (1F)

Agenda Ideas     (1G)

please insert below (along with your name for follow-up purposes)     (1G1)

  • OntologySummit2009 postmortem - review what went well this year, and what should be improved     (1G3)
  • follow-up action planning     (1G4)
  • discuss preliminary thoughts for the next summit     (1G5)
  • Discuss a process that would be reusable year to year for integrating different Summit threads and see a pattern or value to advancing the ontology themes and the practice of the disciplines of ontology including Upper ontologies, standards, architectures, applications domains and success areas and gaps.(RaviSharma)     (1G6)

Resources     (1H)

Agenda & Proceedings     (1I)

(see process above to participate in the discussion)     (1I1)

  • Next meeting: in about 3 months for our first "project progress report" session; but probably a session much sooner to delver into the "Unit of Measure" ontology details ... watch out for announcements on the mailing list     (1I6)

Transcript of the online chat during the session     (1J)

(slightly edited for clarity)     (1J1)

VNC2: Welcome to the OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14     (1J2)

OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call     (1J3)

anonymous1 morphed into Bahareh Heravi     (1J6)

Peter P. Yim: will " anonymous" participants please morph into their WikiWord-name-based identity by clicking on the "Settings" button (at top center)     (1J7)

anonymous1 morphed into David Leal     (1J8)

anonymous morphed into Dennis Thomas     (1J9)

anonymous2 morphed into Frank Chum     (1J10)

anonymous3 morphed into Line Pouchard     (1J11)

anonymous4 morphed into Kurt Conrad     (1J12)

anonymous6 morphed into David Price     (1J13)

anonymous1 morphed into Gerald Radack     (1J14)

anonymous5 morphed into BillMcCarthy     (1J15)

anonymous7 morphed into Mark Carlisle     (1J16)

anonymous2: THis is Duane - how do I morph?     (1J17)

anonymous morphed into Pat Hayes     (1J18)

Pat Hayes: Duane: hit Settings, at top.     (1J19)

anonymous2 morphed into Duane Nickull     (1J20)

anonymous morphed into Brand Niemann     (1J23)

anonymous morphed into Doug Holmes     (1J24)

anonymous1 morphed into DavidCoggeshall     (1J25)

Pat Hayes: (ref. the Communique wording ... end first paragraph) I still have problems     (1J27)

with this wording. "..., as illustrated..."can be read as a restriction,     (1J28)

meaning "as opposed to others we do not mention." Why not put a stop     (1J29)

after 'to standards', and have the illustrations in a separate sentence.     (1J30)

Mike Bennett: Units as a concept also needs to be able to deal with monetary units and so on     (1J31)

- whether as part of the physical units ontology or in a wider framework.     (1J32)

Pat Hayes: How do I re-mute myself?     (1J33)

Peter P. Yim: " *2 " to mute your phone again     (1J34)

anonymous1 morphed into Katherine Goodier     (1J36)

Mike Bennett: Note that under the Financial heading there are 2 things:     (1J37)

The EDM Council Semantics Repository which I can happily     (1J38)

provide regular reports on; and the more aspirational     (1J39)

agenda item from Bill Nichols, though I assume he would be     (1J40)

able to provide updates, but it's not "an ontology" as the     (1J41)

EDMCouncil repository is     (1J42)

Steve Ray: Discussion and a quick poll on which mailing list we should use,     (1J43)

for our "ontology-based standards" discussion, going forward     (1J44)

Pat Hayes: I would strongly support having a separate list.     (1J45)

The general forum is already overloaded.     (1J46)

DeborahMacPherson: ontologies and standards list is fine with me, there is     (1J47)

too much traffic on ontolog proper     (1J48)

Howard Mason: Concur - we need to separate theoretical discussions from practical developments     (1J49)

Katherine Goodier: I think it went better than in previous years. We are getting     (1J50)

much better at this. Peter has great pictures of most of us already!     (1J51)

Gerald Radack: We could actually use Facebook, rather than trying to duplicate it on the Wiki.     (1J53)

Pat Hayes: Laurent: agreed this is a nice idea. I can make a webpage if people     (1J55)

can send me their photos. But using facebook is a neat idea.     (1J56)

Mike Bennett: Linked-in is Facebook for grown-ups     (1J57)

Line Pouchard: Facebook is fine with me     (1J58)

Pavithra Kenjige: Okay... we can post a picture!     (1J59)

Mike Bennett: Can yoiu clarify what Yes means?     (1J60)

Line Pouchard: I got overloaded with the theoretical discussions,     (1J61)

separating them from practical discussions seemed interesting.     (1J62)

Peter P. Yim: for onward discussion using a new list - vote count 18     (1J63)

Peter P. Yim: for onward discussion using the existing [ontolog-forum] list - vote count 3     (1J64)

Peter P. Yim: I'll set up a new list to handle the discussion then     (1J65)

(give me a few days to get that done)     (1J66)

Peter P. Yim: note that Ontolog should just be a "good conversation"     (1J67)

(in John Seely Brown's sense of a "community of practice")     (1J68)

... real project should be executed in more appropriate     (1J69)

settings like ISO, OASIS, W3C, etc.     (1J70)

David Price: Quarterly update telecon sounds like a good idea.     (1J71)

Line Pouchard: What Peter suggested seems a good idea. Not everyone want     (1J72)

to follow every project     (1J73)

Line Pouchard: I referred to having several quarterly Tcons where     (1J74)

projects are distributed, as reviewing all projects     (1J75)

in one Tcon seems too much.     (1J76)

anonymous1 morphed into Pat Cassidy     (1J77)

BillMcCarthy: If we set up a separate financial list, ISO/IEC 15944-4     (1J78)

(the Open-edi accounting & economic ontology (REA-based)     (1J79)

is definitely interested in working with Mike Bennett and others.     (1J80)

Pat Hayes: Bill, can you put me on the Cc list for news of that topic?     (1J81)

Thanks. phayes[at]ihmc.us     (1J82)

Mike Bennett: @Bill: great news     (1J83)

Mike Bennett: @Bill we should talk about this more off line     (1J84)

Pat Hayes: pass on my comment, it was only an endorsement of     (1J85)

Peter's comment on the role of ontolog.     (1J86)

Peter P. Yim: we hope every project will maintain a project-page     (1J87)

on the Ontolog Wiki ... and point us to their work site     (1J88)

(say at an ISO WG, OASIS TC, etc.)     (1J89)

Mike Bennett: Thanks for the reminder Peter. Are there any     (1J90)

special requirements for how we do that or is just     (1J91)

a matter of creating a new page?     (1J92)

Peter P. Yim: @ Mike Bennett: there is an (optional) project page     (1J93)

template that one can use as a reference -     (1J94)

Mike Bennett: Thanks, will do that     (1J96)

Peter P. Yim: for those who need a collaborative work environment (CWE)     (1J97)

for their project, Ontolog will be happy to incubate     (1J98)

the project (on the Ontolog-CWE) while they look for     (1J99)

a "home" for their project(s)     (1J100)

Katherine Goodier: Can we all indicate which standards we are     (1J101)

interested in using our edit ability to this page?     (1J102)

Frank Chum: Katherine, I'm interested in Ontology and Standards for Oil and Gas.     (1J103)

Katherine Goodier: Thanks, Frank. I will start a little table for our meeting notes....     (1J104)

David Leal: Katherine, I'm interested in Oil and Gas and Units     (1J105)

Line Pouchard: Katherine: I am interested in Connecting ISO/IEC 11179     (1J107)

to data sets and geospatial Catalog mediation.     (1J108)

Steve Ray: Question: what topic would you suggest for next year's summit?     (1J110)

Frank Chum: Since there are a lot of interests recently on UOM, may I suggest     (1J111)

upper ontology as a topic for next year's summit conference?     (1J112)

Mike Bennett: Agree with upper ontology and /or foundational ontology,     (1J113)

ontology framework and all that (including what those terms     (1J114)

mean and what's useful)     (1J115)

Frank Chum: Topic for next year: Business Cases and Use Cases     (1J116)

Peter P. Yim: topic for the next summit (this was first proposed by Barry Smith     (1J117)

after Ontology Summit 2008 - education and training     (1J118)

(to give the world more) ontologists     (1J119)

Frank Chum: Upper Ontology as standards     (1J120)

Michael Grüninger: Collecting use cases (semantic integration, decision support,     (1J121)

search) that demonstrate the benefit of ontologies to     (1J122)

ontology-skeptics     (1J123)

Pat Hayes: +1 to MichaelGruninger's idea. We need some evidential support     (1J124)

for any thesis (such as the utility of an 'upper ontology')     (1J125)

before trying to convince others of it. Right now we have     (1J126)

little more than religious fervor for most of these topics, seems to me.     (1J127)

Pat Cassidy: One possibility for next year's summit is the use of ontologies     (1J128)

in natural language processing tasks. I think this is important     (1J129)

because from what I have seen thus far, any complex ontology     (1J130)

will be very hard to use without a good NL interface to the ontology.     (1J131)

A well-functioning interface will be both a tool to make an ontology     (1J132)

easier to use and a demonstration of how it can be used. The interface     (1J133)

could implement a controlled English, using a vocabulary of a     (1J134)

few thousand words.     (1J135)

Frank Chum: Michael, ditto     (1J136)

Mike Bennett: Sorry, got to drop off for another call     (1J137)

Peter P. Yim: bye, Mike .. thanks for coming!     (1J138)

Laurent Liscia: My own experience is that there are very few ontology skeptics -     (1J139)

mostly people who know nothing about ontologies.     (1J140)

Laurent Liscia: Adoption is key - and we're not talking about "marketing" somehow.     (1J141)

Or popularization. These are dreded but critical words.     (1J142)

Pat Hayes: @Laurent: my experience is the opposite. BUt in any case we must be     (1J143)

very careful not to oversell, to risk a backlash. Anyone with     (1J144)

an AI background knows the horror stories of the AI winter.     (1J145)

FWIW, I am something of an ontology skeptic myself.     (1J146)

Pavithra Kenjige: Unless you have business use case one can have do the roi     (1J147)

Frank Chum: People seeing use cases can spark ideas of how they would use ontology     (1J148)

in their own environment.     (1J149)

{{{ Duane Nickull: the interface has to be easy to understand. In 1997 we developed a natural language interface similar to the wolfram alpha one for GoXML. users loved being able to ask questions like "find me a {noun} {that is} a {ontology concept}. }}}     (1J151)

David Price: This conversation no longer has any value. Steve ... suggest stopping it for now.     (1J152)

Laurent Liscia: I have to drop off - but @ Pat Hayes: I'm noticing that     (1J153)

we are raising the issue of AI again. And I would argue     (1J154)

that this is not a dirty acronym. It was a winter for     (1J155)

a lot of reasons - but now it's Spring     (1J156)

Frank Chum: Topic: Getting Ontology into the Mainstream ... (Peter)     (1J158)

Pat Hayes: A topic might be >>barriers to ontology use<<, which allows     (1J159)

discussion of use cases and also attempts to give     (1J160)

more general analyses of issues of applying ontologies     (1J161)

in practice. Even Pat C.'s topic might fit in there     (1J162)

DeborahMacPherson: Need to sign off - will look for the new list and thanks!     (1J163)

Frank Chum: A more positive language would be preferred     (1J164)

Peter P. Yim: I suggest we pick our Summit topic in terms of its "strategic" value     (1J165)

to our agenda, which, for Ontolog (although Ontolog is not the     (1J166)

only organizer) is to "to advancing the field of ontology,     (1J167)

ontological engineering and semantic technology, and advocating     (1J168)

their adoption into mainstream applications and international standards."     (1J169)

Michael Grüninger: I like PatHayes' suggestion.     (1J170)

David Price: I like PatHayes' suggestion too. I also like the use of the word "barriers".     (1J171)

David Price: That also lays the basis for future summits ... to address longer term barriers.     (1J172)

Peter P. Yim: +1 on PatHayes' suggestion     (1J173)

Frank Chum: How about overcoming barriers     (1J174)

Kurt Conrad: That was "naturalist decision making"?     (1J176)

Pat Hayes: Naturalistic decision making (NDM)     (1J177)

David Price: What are we going to do any time soon on Units?     (1J179)

Can we set up a telecon to follow-up soon?     (1J180)

Frank Chum: signing off... Thanks everyone!     (1J181)

David Leal: Michel Bohms has offered to host a registry of units ontology     (1J182)

This could be a good idea with information about status,     (1J184)

scope and ambitions.     (1J185)

Duane Nickull: thanks everyone!     (1J186)

Steve Ray: Thank you all for your participation.     (1J189)

Peter P. Yim: thank you ... meeting adjourned 12:09pm PDT     (1J190)

Audio Recording of this Session     (1K)

= session adjourned: 12:09pm PDT =     (1K5)

notes taken by: Peter P. Yim / 2009.05.14-12:10 PDT;     (1K7)

All participants, please review and edit to enhance accuracy and granularity of the documented proceedings.     (1K8)


For the record ...     (1K9)

How To Join (while the session is in progress)     (1L)


This page has been migrated from the OntologWiki - Click here for original page     (1L4)